[87756] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: choH vs. choHmoH
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Lucas Big-Guy)
Sat Jan 30 15:43:51 2010
In-Reply-To: <27a7b7f71001301238v46351293md6938a9439799f47@mail.gmail.com>
From: Lucas Big-Guy <asdfgh746@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:42:24 -0500
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
This may be a more logical explanation of the situation.
L.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 3:38 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
> Could it be clipped Klingon for "Cause the ship's attack course to change"
> or "cause the ship to change attack course"?
> This is a battle situation and he's trying to get the helmsman to plot an
> intercept course to the shuttle that Kirk is on. He wants someone to make
> the ship move that way:
>
> (Duj) HIvHe yIchoHmoH - Cause the (ship's) attack course to change!
>
> Can't choH be both transitive and intransitive? Why does it have to be one
> or the other? I can change things myself or I can cause something else to
> change something. All the example phrases make sense to me and I see no
> conflict.
>
> qurgh
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 12:10 PM, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > 2010/1/30 MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
> > > {choH} seems simple enough to me. By itself it means intransitive
> > "change,
> > > *
> > > become* different", while {choHmoH} means transitive "change,
> > > *make*different,
> > > *cause to* be(come) different".
> > > lay'tel SIvten
> > >
> > >
> > But the canon phrases we have seem to contradict each other. Look at the
> > two
> > phrases Voragh gave for {choH}:
> >
> > DaH Heraj yIchoH
> > Alter your course now. (ST5 notes)
> >
> > ghopDu' choHpu' Qe'
> > The restaurant has altered hands. (KGT)
> >
> > The first one shows clearly that {choH} is transitive, the second one as
> > well (the English phrasing seems a little weird to me, does it mean that
> > the
> > restaurant got a different owner now?).
> >
> > Then there's that one single {choHmoH} phrase which indicates that
> > {choHmoH}
> > is the transitive verb.
> >
> > So either MO mixed something up, or we can assume the Klingon guy on the
> > ship made a mistake. Or a subtle distinction is involved, which we still
> > have to explore. It could also be the case that the two {choH} sentences
> > are
> > wrong and that {choH} is intransitive indeed.
> >
> > But it's not clear or simple at all from what we have, if {choH} or
> > {choHmoH} is the transitive Klingon verb for "to change something".
> >
> > - André
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
