[87678] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: jatlh vs. ja'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Thu Jan 21 11:56:01 2010
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "'tlhingan-hol@kli.org'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:53:21 -0600
In-Reply-To: <4B5863B0.7010504@trimboli.name>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
SuStel:
>While we know that {jatlh} and {ja'} are the two "verbs of saying,"
>there has been little discussion about the difference between the two.
>Some people treat them as if they were interchangeable, and this has
>always bothered me, because I see two very different meanings.
>
>Specifically, {ja'} "tell, report" seems to refer to informing and
>ordering, while {jatlh} "speak, say" has a more general meaning of
>speech of any kind.
Quvar:
>> [...] I also tend to use {ja'} more like "report" or "tell
>> a story", while {jatlh} is the "action of talking".
I think this is absolutely right. One could thus say:
reH jatlhtaH Humanpu' 'ach pagh luja'
Humans are always talking but never say anything!
>If true, one would not expect to see, for instance, Quvar's recent
>sentence, {ja' tera'ngan, <naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'?>} The Terran
>isn't informing the Klingon about anything or ordering him; he's asking
>for information. {jatlh} is required. On the other hand, the second
>sentence, {ja' tlhIngan, <lIchopbe'chugh ghewmey>} works because the
>Klingon is informing the Terran of the answer (there is an implied
>{HIja'} there). But if {jatlh} were used instead, it would still work.
>
>I'm not considering here what the correct object of {ja'} is. Okrand
>discussed {jatlh} in detail,
Will Martin interviewed Marc Okrand (HQ 12 [1998]):
WM: "And a typical direct object of {ja'} would be the person
addressed and a typical object of the verb {jatlh} would
be the thing you say."
MO: "The speech event."
>but every use of {ja'} has been inconclusive in that regard.
For those interested, here's the list:
qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'
HIqaghQo' qaja'pu'
I told you not to interrupt me.
I told you, "Don't interrupt me!"
"Don't interrupt me!" I told you. TKD
yIja'Qo'
Don't tell him! TKD
yIja''egh
Tell yourself! TKD
peja''egh
Tell yourselves! TKD
qaja'
I tell you. TKD
qaja'pu'
I told you. TKD
qaja'qang
I am willing to tell you. TKD
nuja'rup
They are prepared to tell us. TKD
HIja'neS
Do me the honor of telling me. TKD
choja'chugh
if you tell me TKD
choja'pa'
before you tell me TKD
choja'Qo'chugh
if you won't tell me (if you refuse to tell me) TKD
nuja' tlhIngan wIch ja'wI'pu'
According to Klingon legend... S8
(lit. "Klingon legend tellers tell us...")
ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla'
The enemy commander wishes a truce (in order) to confer. TKD
maja'chuqjaj?
[Uhh...] Can we talk? PK
'uQ wISoppu'DI' maja'chuq
We will talk after dinner. PK
Finally, for those unfamiliar with the origin of {ja'}, marqoS tells us that in ST3:
The Klingon is {qama'pu' jonta' neH!}; the original script had the
English as "I told you: engine only!" ({qa-} "I/you"; *{ma'} "tell";
{-pu'} "perfective"; {jonta'} "engine"; {neH} "only"), but it got
rewritten in the subtitles to "I wanted prisoners! " ... The verb
{ma'}, meaning "to tell", was changed to {ja'} to remove the ambi-
guity of the sentence and make the substitution less obvious.
Holtej immediately noticed another of Okrand's jokes:
And, of course, the addition of the verb {ma'} "accommodate".
So now, {qama'pu'} means "I have accommodated you", perhaps in a
tongue-in-cheek swipe at Paramount by MO.
--
Voragh
Canon Master of the Klingons
