[87458] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Transitivity of and
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David Trimboli)
Wed Dec 2 20:53:00 2009
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 20:43:14 -0500
From: David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name>
In-reply-to: <a1173fff0912021652t91af691o372b6d7fd697b0b1@mail.gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Christopher Doty wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 16:31, David Trimboli <david@trimboli.name> wrote:
>> Christopher Doty wrote:
>>> This is cool!! It is cool because (probably getting myself in trouble...):
>>>
>>> All of these examples have <-choH> attached to a verb that describes a
>>> state or a quality (often called in linguistics stative verbs). It
>>> might well be that <-choH> marks an entrance into a specific state.
>>> The exception to this is for verbs of motion, but since Okrand
>>> specific states that <-choH> goes with verbs of motion, I think that's
>>> fine. But where do we not see <-choH>? With verbs that actually
>>> describe an action (i.e., active verbs). Thus, we might expect, with
>>> a verb like <HoH> to occur as <jIHoH 'e' vItagh> "I start killing
>>> stuff" rather than ??<jIHoHchoH>.
>>>
>>> Why is this totally cool? Because this distinction is damn near
>>> EXACTLY what you get in PNW languages: to start doing something is
>>> completely distinct from starting to BE something.
>>>
>>> I repeat. COOL!
>> Until Okrand starts using <X 'e' vItagh> or something like it, the only
>> thing it indicates to me is that Okrand simply hasn't needed to talk
>> about starting with verbs of action. Without examples going one way or
>> the other, there's no reason to assume anything about {-choH} other than
>> what the book says.
>
> Again with going back and forth between going by what the book(s)
> say(s) and extrapolating...
>
> You'll also note that I didn't "assume" anything. I said that "it may
> well be," not that is was or wasn't.
I do note that you said that. I didn't say you said anything wrong. I
was stating general principles, not contradicting you.
--
SuStel
tlhIngan Hol MUSH
http://trimboli.name/mush
