[87399] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Numbers with pronouns
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (ghunchu'wI' 'utlh)
Tue Dec 1 22:58:22 2009
In-Reply-To: <a1173fff0912011355m162ae5a9ob8b7358fdc735c8d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 22:55:33 -0500
From: "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:55 PM, Christopher Doty <suomichris@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The closest thing I can get from this phrase is "Acting in concert,
>> while we 'be'..."
>
> I don't know why you've translated it like this, though.
I'm trying to render the strangeness of the Klingon in the
translation. By using the word "be" in quotes, I meant to indicate
that it doesn't seem like a normal thing to say.
> <maH>, used
> verbally, doesn't mean "we be" (which is not standard English,
> although it does occur in some dialects, but with a distinct aspectual
> meaning); it means "we are."
It has the meaning "we are" when preceded by a noun or locative
phrase. It doesn't work to mean "we are" otherwise.
> If you are trying to translate
> literally, it should be "Acting in concert, while we are..."
I did that at first, but it doesn't really show how unnatural the
Klingon appears to be. The ellipsis tends to imply that something
follows "are" to complete the phrase.
> A better translation, literal
> save for the reordering of words to match English syntax, would be
> "While we are acting in concert..."
Try adding a comma. "While we are, acting in concert..." is very close
to the impression I get from the Klingon.
> See my previous email, sent after you sent this. It appears that
> <nItebHa'> and <tay'> have slight meaning differences, and the meaning
> of <nItebHa'> seems to work better in this context.
{nItebHa'} is definitely a good way to talk about doing something in
unison. But you'll have to say *what* is being done in order for it to
have something to modify. For example:
{nItebHa' mavangtaHvIS...}
"while we are taking action together..."
or
{nItebHa' maSuvtaHvIS...}
"while we are fighting together..."
> I'm not sure what you think is lacking in <nItebHa' maHtaHvIs>, based
> on the examples you give here...
What's missing is the object or locative noun that TKD gives as the
two things that a "to be" prounoun accompanies. One can "be a[n
instance of a] thing", or one can "be at a place", but one can not
simply "be".
-- ghunchu'wI'
