[86692] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: Ditransitive reflexives
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Tue Oct 27 09:40:50 2009
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "'tlhingan-hol@kli.org'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:37:34 -0500
In-Reply-To: <466401.80786.qm@web82604.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Tracy Canfield:
>> My original post discusses *why* the prefix trick seems to be a problem in
>> these cases. With examples. So I really am more than a little frustrated
>> to have two people immediately tell me to use it, without addressing the
>> original question.
ter'eS:
>You have found a lacuna in Klingon grammar. As far as I know, there is no
>easy way to express a reciprocal relationship between the subjects and
>beneficiaries of a verb phrase. You were posing the possibility of
>treating such a relationship as if it were a reciprocal subject-object
>relationship by using the "prefix trick" in some way, but the fact is
>that the verb in a (-chuq) phrase has no object, as shown by the use of
>the "no-object" verb prefixes. We say, for example, "We hit each other",
>using a "dummy" object to express the mutual action, but Klingons say
>{mamupchuq}, or something like "We reciprocally and mutually hit". As Doq
>noted, don't be influenced by the "each other" in the English, since the
>Klingon phrase is object-less, and thus the prefix trick is irrelevant.
I don't want to get into speculative grammar, but here is all I have in my notes about {-chuq} "reciprocal" together with all known examples:
TKD 36: This suffix is used only with plural subjects. It is translated each other or one another. The prefix set indicating "no object" is also used when this suffix is used:
{maqIpchuq} we hit each other
{SuqIpchuq} you (plural) hit each other
{qIpchuq} they hit each other
{peqIpchuq} hit each other!
KGT 158: If one wanted to say that two persons collide but not imply that they butt heads, the verb {ngeQ} would probably be used along with the suffix {-chuq} ("each other") as in {ngeQchuq tera'nganpu'} ("The Terrans collide with each other").
{ja'chuqmeH rojHom neH jaghla'}
The enemy commander wishes a truce (in order) to confer. TKD
{maja'chuqjaj?}
Can we talk? PK
{'uQ wISoppu'DI' maja'chuq}
We will talk after dinner. PK
{ghobchuq loDnI'pu'}
"The Brothers Battle One Another"
(the name of the Kahless and Morath statuette) KCD
{pujchuqmoH}
they weaken each other (st.klingon [11/1997])
{Hay'chuq}
They duel one another. KGT
{Hay'chuqchu'}
They duel one another to the death (i.e. "perfectly"). KGT
--
Voragh
Canon Master of the Klingons
