[86684] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Ditransitive reflexives
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Tracy Canfield)
Mon Oct 26 18:42:34 2009
In-Reply-To: <6038b7230910261534v543a4a17y7917561c00dd852b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:41:03 -0400
From: Tracy Canfield <toastrix@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
My original post discusses *why* the prefix trick seems to be a problem in
these cases. With examples. So I really am more than a little frustrated
to have two people immediately tell me to use it, without addressing the
original question.
2009/10/26 André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com>
> I think what Lieven was implying was that it *might* be that if you can use
> the "prefix trick" (isn't this simply what's usually called dative-shift?)
> for ditransitive sentences too. So, a ditransitive verb like give with the
> prefix trick looks as if it had two direct objects: one expressed by the
> prefix and an overt one in form of a noun. A double accusative structure,
> if
> you want it that way.
> It's not unlogical to reason that using the reciprocal suffix {-chuq}
> behind
> the ditransitive verb expresses likewise the meaning of "giving X to each
> other".
> We don't have any canon phrases expressing this concept, but a sentence
> like
> that *could* be:
> {yuch nobchuqpu'}
>
> But this is only an educated guess, as there's no example in the corpus, we
> can only guess... but maybe there are other possibilities, like {yuch
> lutampu'} (they exchanged chocolate). ;)
>
> Greetings,
> - André
>
> 2009/10/26 Tracy Canfield <toastrix@gmail.com>
>
> > Yeah, but ... that's not what I'm asking.
> > My question is about what happens when either the direct object or the
> > indirect object is the same as the subject.
> >
> > 2009/10/26 Lieven Litaer <levinius@gmx.de>
> >
> > > I don't know if that's the answer, but maybe a way towards it:
> > >
> > > You can say
> > > {jIHvaD paq yInob}
> > > "give the book to me"
> > >
> > > and
> > > {paq HInob}
> > > "give me the book"
> > >
> > > I think that's called the "prefix trick".
> > >
> > > Quvar.
> > >
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