[86639] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: The meaning of -moH
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Wed Oct 7 20:29:26 2009
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <c0a.6555b99d.37fd5fc3@wmconnect.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:27:19 -0400
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
nuv vIja'. Hol vIjatlh. mu'thegh vIjatlh.
nuv vItlhob. *Question* vIghel.
Okay, I looked it up. Neither of us is right to the point of
confidence that we can call the other wrong. See HolQeD Volume 7,
Number 4, page 4:
Okrand: "... So maybe the way it works is that ghel can ask a question
and only ask a question and the other one [tlhob] can mean that and
is also used to request or plead or something like that."
Starting with the vague memory of having read that a long time ago, I
combined that with the definitions:
tlhob: [TKD: ask], [TKD appendix: request, ask, plead]
ghel: [KGT: ask (a question)]
The definition suggests that the direct object of {ghel} should be a
question and not a person.
We have examples of the use of {tlhob} with persons as the direct
object, and also with sentences as its direct object. I know of no
canon that uses a person as the direct object of {ghel}, though there
may very well be some.
So, you are right that {tlhob} means to plead or request, but you are
not exclusively right, since there are examples of it being used for
the "question" related meaning of "ask" as well, despite how neat and
well organized it would be if it didn't sometimes have that meaning.
Doq
On Oct 6, 2009, at 11:06 PM, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote:
> In a message dated 10/6/2009 22:26:11 Eastern Daylight Time,
> doq@embarqmail.com writes:
>
>> mu'tlheghlIjvaD, mu' {tlhob} nIv law', mu' {ghel} nIv puS. nuv
>> tlhoblu'. qech ghellu'.
>>
>> Doq
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2009, at 9:39 PM, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote:
>> ...
>>>
>>> Both occurrences of "ihn" in this sentence are accusative, "the
>>> usual case
>>> for primary objects", not dative, and you yourself so indicated with
>>> ".ACC".
>>> The first is the direct object of "lasse" and the second is the
>>> direct
>>> object of "fragen".
>>>
>>> (ghaH) ghel (ghaH) 'e' vIchaw'.
>>>
>>> lay'tel SIvten
>>
>
> bIlughbe'law'. vay' ngoD vISov vIneHchugh, vay' nuv vIghel. mulob
> vay'
> vIneHchugh, vItlhob (pagh vIpoQ pagh vIra').
> vItlhobchugh "Doytlh" Hol vIlo'taHvIS, vaj <bitten> vIjatlh.
> vIghelchugh
> vaj Holvam mu' <fragen> vIjatlh.
>
> lay'tel SIvten
>
>
>
