[865] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Instrumental constructions
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Fri May 14 01:42:24 1993
Errors-To: tlhIngan-Hol-request@village.boston.ma.us
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Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
From: laibow@brick.purchase.edu (The Songbringer -- Marnen to the common fol
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
Date: Thu, 13 May 93 16:48:27 EDT
In-Reply-To: <9305112316.AA14850@codex.com>; from "Captain Krankor" at May 11,
Captain Krankor says:
:
:
: >Fortunately, I think the following is a good solution. If an
: >instrumental construction (roughly "X does Y with Z") is needed,
: >prepend to the subject the relative clause "Z lo'bogh", "which uses
: >Z". For example:
:
: >lagh Hupta' QIghpejDaj lo'bogh HungpIn.
: >"The security chief, who uses his agonizer, punished the ensign."
: >"The security chief punished the ensign with his agonizer."
:
: >One will have to use a pronoun if there is no explicitly stated
: >subject but one wants to use this construction. Thus:
:
: >qarDaS'Ingan DaHoHta' pu'HIch lo'bogh SoH'e'.
: >"*You*, who uses a phaser, killed the Cardassian."
: >"*You* killed the Cardassian with a phaser."
:
: >HoD! DIvI' Duj vIlegh nochmey lo'bogh jIH.
: >"Captain! I, who uses the sensors, see the Federation ship."
: >"Captain! I have the Federation ship on sensors."
:
: An interesting and useful approach. I like the direction it points
: in. My first comment would be that one still needs to use the
: correct verb prefix with lo'bogh. Thus:
:
: >qarDaSngan DaHoHta' pu'HIch Dalo'bogh SoH'e'
:
: While I like this approach, I think we might take it a step further.
: As long as we're going to use lo', wouldn't it be closer to the
: desired meaning to use -vIS instead of -bogh?
:
: qarDaSngan DaHoHta' pu'HIch Dalo'taHvIS
: "You killed the Cardassian while using the phaser." or
: "You killed the Cardassian with the phaser."
This is a really nice proposal -- I think it captures the spirit beautifully.
: Of course, this still doesn't help us say "I'm going to the saloon
: with Mara." The only thing I can think of offhand doesn't quite capture the
: meaing: tachDaq maghoS mara jIH je
This idea is reminiscent of Japanese, where "A to B" means "A and B," but "A B
to" means "A with B."
: --Krankor
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