[86256] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: vIl - be ridgy in HolQeD 13:1
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Jul 13 09:30:12 2009
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "'tlhingan-hol@kli.org'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:28:06 -0500
In-Reply-To: <D355D6AE-F9EB-4635-869C-0549CA4D3CED@alcaco.net>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
qe'San (Jon Brown) wrote:
>> QuchwIj pIm QuchlIj
>> Your forehead is different to mine (i.e. different family)
>>
>> Although thinking about that sentence; can [pIm] be used like that
>> or would I need to say that differently to get that meaning?
ghunchu'wI':
>Based on {pIm} being glossed simply as "be different" and not as
>"differ (from)", I wouldn't use it that way. I'd say it like this:
>
> pIm QuchwIj QuchlIj je
> My forehead and your forehead are different.
{pIm} "be different" in canon:
pImlaw' romuluSngan be' porgh
I've heard Romulan women are different. (ST5 notes)
may' bom pIm bom
sing a different battle song
(idiom for "speak of another matter entirely") KGT
DaH may' bom pIm Dabom
Now you sing a different battle song.
(i.e. "Well, that's another matter altogether.") KGT
may' bom pIm wIbom
We sing a different battle song. KGT
may' bom pIm lubom
They sing a different battle song. KGT
motlh pIm 'ejyo' Dujmey
Unlike most Starfleet vessels...
[i.e. "Starfleet vessels are usually different..."] SP3
QuchlIj vIl law' QuchwIj vIl pIm
your forehead is not as ridgy as my forehead (HQ 13.1:10)
Cf. also {Sar} "be varied, be various" and antonyms {rap} "be the same" and {nIb} "be identical" -- all qualities.
>I'd also be tempted to use {tuqvol} instead of {Quch} here, to help
>suggest your parenthetical context.
{no''och} might also work:
KGT 28f.: The standard word for this prominent part of Klingon anatomy is {Quch}, and this word is found with this meaning throughout the Empire. In addition, however, practically every dialect has its own alternate word for forehead. Indeed, {Quch} is simply the word for forehead in the First City. Among these other forms are: {boD, jargh, mIQ, 'aQlo', Huy'Dung, tuqvol, no''och}. While the first four of these words are simply regionalisms for forehead, the last three can be analyzed, at least partially. {Huy'Dung} is probably from {Huy' Dung} ("above the eyebrow[s]"). The word {tuqvol} may contain the word {tuq} ("house [lineage]") because family resemblances can be seen in forehead ridges. The second element, {vol}, however, is otherwise unknown. Similarly, the first syllable of {no''och} may derive from {no'} ("ancestors"), again suggesting something about genealogy. The second syllable, {'och}, probably resembles {'och} ("tunnel") only accidentally; there is no reason to think that "ancestors' tunnel" is a way to say "forehead".
Note there's a relevant photo in KGT (p. 28) showing that forehead patterns within Houses are shared and inherited:
"The casting of Alexander's forehead displays the {Quch} of a
proud house." [photo from TNG "Parallels"]
--
Voragh
Canon Master of the Klingons
