[86116] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: {'Iv} and {law'}/{puS}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Jun 29 10:20:45 2009
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
To: "'tlhingan-hol@kli.org'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:18:59 -0500
In-Reply-To: <3453B29D-1257-4C02-8C92-FCC39516DF94@alcaco.net>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Mark J. Reed wrote:
>> My included recasting should have clarified the meaning, I
>> thought: {Dev qoH. tlha' latlh. Doghqu' 'Iv?}
>>
>> The quote, incidentally: "Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the
>> fool who follows him?" - Kenobi to Solo, Episode IV
ghunchu'wI':
>"A fool leads. Another follows. Who is *foolish*?" Yes, I read that,
>but I didn't recognize it either. You're right, it totally looses
>the desired emphasis of the question you're trying to translate.
Mark J. Reed:
>DT> 'Iv Dogh law' latlh Dogh puS: qoH, tlha'bogh qoH ghap?
>
>Pithy and retains the sense of the original. maj.
>
>I also like Doq's idea of asking which is the {qoHna'} instead of
>making a {law'}/{puS} with {Dogh}. I mean, it completely sidesteps
>the "who is more X" problem that was the whole point of my post :),
>but probably for that reason it works very well as a translation.
>Plus, it keeps the visible connection (as between "fool" and
>"foolish") that is missing between {qoH} and {Dogh}.
Although I like SuStel's version, don't forget that {nIv} "be superior" can sometimes be used for superlatives:
bortaS nIvqu' 'oH bortaS'e'
Revenge is the best revenge. TKW
'etlh QorghHa'lu'chugh ragh 'etlh nIvqu' 'ej jejHa'choH
Even the best blade will rust and grow dull unless it is cared for. TKW
yIntaHbogh qagh jablu'DI' reH nIvqu' qagh
Gagh is always best when served live. TKW
wa' Dol nIvDaq matay'DI' maQap
We succeed together in a greater whole. TKW
So modifying Sustel's version:
"Who's the more foolish - the fool, or the fool who follows him?"
qoH nIv(qu') 'Iv - qoH, tlha'bogh qoH ghap?
or should that be:
'Iv qoH nIv(qu') -- qoH, tlha'bogh qoH ghap?
(I'm still confused by how to use {'Iv} after all these years!)
--
Voragh
Canon Master of the Klingons
