[84011] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: KCD 1
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Fri Jan 18 18:44:36 2008
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20080118142250.0298d770@imap.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:42:25 -0500
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
I suspect that the thing to keep in mind here is that Okrand wanted to
preserve the adjectival use of {Sum} and {Hop}. If you can use them as
adjectives, you can't give them a direct object.
Doq
On Jan 18, 2008, at 3:42 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:
> qa'vaj:
>>> I was playing around with KCD, and hit a spot where one of the
>>> Klingons
>> said
>>> something like "our houses have always stood door-to-door". I
>>> couldn't
>> help
>>> wondering, how would a Klingon say that? It seems quite idiomatic.
>
> SuStel:
>> How about
>>
>> reH Sumchuq juHmeymaj
>>
>> In context, the sentence was meant to mean that their physical
>> dwellings
>> were next to each other, though there was an intentional and
>> disingenuous undertone of their Houses (note the capital letter)
>> being
>> closely allied (which they were most certainly not).
>
> {Sum} "be near" isn't transitive, so you can't use {-chuq} "[do
> something]
> to each other/one another".
>
> Will Martin asked about {-chuq} with {Sum} in his interview on
> deixis in
> HolQeD (Dec. 1998, pp. 9-10). Okrand shot him down:
>
> MO: Question: {Sum'a' raS?} "Is the table near (me)?" ("Am I near
> the table?)
> Answer: {HIja'. Sum raS.} "Yes. The table is near (you)."
> Answer: {ghobe'. jIHDaq Sum raS.} "No. The table is near me."
> WM: And could I say {maSumchuq}?
> MO: No. You'd just say {bISum} or {SuSum}. If you haven't, in the
> course
> of the conversation, set things up otherwise, it's assumed that the
> event
> being talked about is taking place where the speaker is. In fact,
> {jISum}
> alone probably would make no everyday sense to a Klingon. "I am near
> me."
> But it does have an idiomatic philosophical sense, something like
> "I'm in
> touch with my inner self" (but in a Klingon sort of way, of course).
>
>
>>> ngoDvammo' nughmaj So'bogh peghtaHgach'e' vIbIv 'e' vIwuq jIH,
>>> ghawron,
>>> tlhIngan yejquv DevwI'. 'ej SoHvaD, DIvI' yoq, tlhIngan tIqna'
>>> vI'agh.
>>
>> DIvI' yoq? I could never figure out what he said there...
>
> {DIvI' yoq} "Federation humanoid" ??
> {DIvI' yuQ} "Federation planet" ??
>
> The only thing even remotely similar I could think of is {yuQjIjDIvI'}
> "United Federation of Planets" -- you of the UFP?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Voragh
> Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
>
>
>
