[84000] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Missing question words
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Doq)
Thu Jan 17 19:46:00 2008
From: Doq <doq@embarqmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <6EB3525C-FA9A-4390-89A4-4B2F1884EBBB@insightbb.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:43:35 -0500
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
I think {Daqvam}, {naDev} and {jIHDaq} are all synonyms, and I don't
see any differences yet. I think you are translating {jIHDaq} as
literally "at me", which is not accurate according to my understanding
of the word. The first person's location is by definition "here".
That's what deixis is all about.
Otherwise, what is the difference between "here" and "there"? "There"
is some other specific place that is clearly not "here", which is
where "I" am. We wouldn't need to separate words for {naDev} and {pa'}
or two different suffixes {-vam} and {-vetlh} if not for this concept
of {jIHDaq} vs. some other place.
Okrand did miss a great opportunity to create separate locative nouns
and noun suffixes for second person and third person locations, but he
was steeped in a language that only has first person and "other" when
it comes to "this" vs. "that" and "here" vs. "there".
Doq
On Jan 17, 2008, at 5:15 PM, Alan Anderson wrote:
> On Jan 17, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Doq wrote:
>
>> My point is
>> that I don't understand how {naDev} can be used without it being
>> locative any more than I could understand {jIHDaq} being used without
>> it being locative, because {naDev} really is just a synonym for
>> {jIHDaq}.
>
> "Really"?
>
> Its definition says it means "here", and TKD explains it as meaning
> something like "hereabouts". I don't see anything that makes it
> distinctly personal. I can easily toss off a sentence where {naDev}
> and {jIHDaq} give quite different results:
>
> jImejDI', naDev nagh yIpummoH.
> jImejDI', jIHDaq nagh yIpummoH.
>
> I also don't see anything wrong with a sentence such as this:
>
> Hurgh naDev.
>
> If {naDev} is a synonym for anything, I suggest it would be {Daqvam}.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
>
