[83972] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Missing question words
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Mon Jan 14 17:15:58 2008
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:14:16 -0600
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <5FE1EB9E-6B25-46B5-9563-54DBA33FE8B2@embarqmail.com>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Doq wrote:
>Several times, people have tended to want to put {naDevvo'} or
>{DaqwIjvo'} or somesuch at the beginning of a sentence about how far
>away something is. According to the interview cited here recently,
>that is already assumed. You'd have to want to change context to
>somewhere besides the location of the speaker to need any locative in
>a sentence with {Hop} or {Sum} as the verb. The default location is
>the location of the speaker.
>
>You don't say {naDevvo' Hop juHwIj.} You just say {Hop juHwIj.}
>{naDev} is assumed, by default, and even if you used it, you wouldn't
>use {-vo'} because you are not talking about motion. You are talking
>about location, and that is handled by {-Daq}, which is assumed for
>{naDev}, so you don't have to use it.
>
>Meanwhile, if you do change the location context, I think the suffix
>is {-Daq} and not {-vo'}.
Correct. From Okrand's interview in HQ 12/1998:
WM: Like if I wanted to say, "You are near the table", could I say {SoHvaD
Sum raS}?
MO: No. You'd use {-Daq}: {SoHDaq Sum raS}. This throws the orientation
away from the speaker (unmarked, unstated) and to the listener (marked,
stated: "at you, where you are"). But you don't always need to state this
overtly. Context is critical. For example: {qagh largh SuvwI' ghung. Sum
qagh 'e' Sov.} "The hungry warrior smells the gagh. He/she knows the gagh
is nearby." The only interpretation of this (absent other information) is
that the warrior knows the {gagh} is near the warrior, not the warrior
knows the {gagh} is near the speaker of the sentences. If context isn't
clear, you can clarify: Question: {Sum'a' raS?} "Is the table near (me)?"
("Am I near the table?") Answer: {HIja'. Sum raS.} "Yes. The table is near
(you)." Answer: {ghobe'. jIHDaq Sum raS.} "No. The table is near me."
>{juHwIjDaq Hop vavwI'.} "My father is far from my home." I believe it
>would be incorrect to say {juHwIjvo' Hop vavwI'.} I think that {-vo'}
>implies actual motion, not distance, and in this construction in
>Klingon, you are setting the location in much the same way that a time
>stamp sets the time. Essentially, I'm saying, "If I were at my home,
>my father would be distant from me." or "If one were at my home, my
>father would be distant from one." It would make no sense to say "If I
>were from my home, my father would be distant from me." See?
{naDev} is assumed to be the point of reference for {Hop} and {Sum}, but
not for all verbs. E.g.:
naDevvo' yIghoS
Go away! TKD
naDevvo' jIleghlaHchu'be'
I can't see well from here. CK
naDevvo' vaS'a'Daq majaHlaH'a'
Can we get to the Great Hall from here? PK
Logically, {naDevvo'} should have been omitted from all of these as the
context was clear, yet it was added redundantly for clarity (or style).
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
