[83917] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Translation help needed
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Steven Boozer)
Thu Jan 10 10:18:42 2008
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:17:34 -0600
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
From: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>
Cc: <Arizhel@klingon-empire.org>
In-Reply-To: <000601c8538e$6a5cfec0$0302a8c0@Melissa>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
At 07:40 AM Thursday 1/10/2008, Arizhel@klingon-empire.org wrote:
>> I am currently working on a project for The Klingon Empire. We
>>want to use words to describe how the Houses in The Empire and what the
>>status of the House is for the voting rights in The High Council. The
>>current tier system is not labeled clearly at this time. I was wondering if
>>I could get some assistance in this matter. I have tried to do the best I
>>can with my resources at hand. If you have questions concerning what I have
>>sent; you can contact me via this e-mail address.
>>
>>Here are the three "tiers"/"categories" of houses currently:
>>
>>Registered House with a Seat: Meaning Houses that are registered with The
>>Empire and have the members to obtain a voting seat on the High Council.
>>
>>Registered House without a Seat: - Meaning Houses that are registered with
>>The Empire and DO NOT have the members to obtain a voting seat on the High
>>Council. These Houses must Vote via the Councilor at Large.
>>
>>Unregistered: Meaning all Houses that have not turned in the Application to
>>the 'oDwI' or those members of The Empire that do not belong to a House.
>>Therefore they must Vote via the Councilor at Large.
mor'taH forwarded your query to the Yahoo Groups Klingon_Language
list. Here's a copy of my reply which you apparently haven't seen:
>I am currently helping out in a project that, in part, is trying to
>label a tier system for houses. Here is where we are, and we just need
>to see what would be more correct for the needed usage. This is the
>direction the discussion has gone: Originally Proposal (#1):
>
>> 1. tuqDIb (House of Privilege) A registered House on The Empire
>>that has a Voting seat on the High Council.
>
>tuq - tribe, house, ancestral unit (n)
>DIb - right, privilege (n)
If anything, *{tuqDIb} is a type of {DIb}, not a type of {tuq}. For
comparison there the {bortaS DIb} - N.B. two word - "Right of Vengeance" (a
Klingon legal right, TKW 121):
"A Klingon who denies himself the Right of Vengeance is no Klingon at all."
(Kor to Worf in DS9 "The Sword of Kahless")
>> 2. tuqHom (House Minor) A registered House on The Empire that
>>does not meet the requirements to have a voting seat on the High
>>Council. This House must place its vote through the Councilor at Large.
>>
>>Hom was a suggestion but after research found it not to be fitting. If a
>>new member that is new to fandom reads the definition it could be
>>interpreted incorrectly.
>>
>>Hom - weakling, runt, scrawny one, skinny one (n) (slang)
>>Hom - bone (n)
>>Hom - diminutive
>
>Hom absolutely fits here as needed. Think of the many ranks throughout
>fandom (not just what may be suggested for here).....la'Hom, soghHom,
>etc.....Hom is the diminutive suffix that added to a word diplays it's
>status as being smaller, or diminutive in stature. That is where the
>slang comes from, supporting the usage of it here. Yes, it also means
>bone, but not with-in the context of use here. It cannot be interpreted
>incorrectly; it is what is it.
Absolutely right. Using the noun suffix {-Hom} is a very Klingon
approach. There is nothing wrong with this. The fact that there are
homophonic nouns is irrelevant. We have no trouble distinguishing between
homonyms in English, and neither do Klingons. It's just a normal part of
the language.
>> 3. tuqtabe' (House not on record) A member of The Empire that
>>has a House but that House has not been registered with The Empire or a
>>member of The Empire that does not belong to a House; neither has voting
>>rights in the High Council. This House or Member must place his/her vote
>>through the Councilor at Large.
>
>tabe' (record/not - not on record) is the suffix group that fits that
>exactly. Additionally, I'm sure that not many people can even pronounce
>the tlh sound, and as I recall, Krahl did want thing to be as 'sayable'
>as possible. If one doesn't have a house, the non house really doesn't
>need a definition.
{tuqtabe'} is gibberish. {ta} is the noun "record" and {-be'} is the verb
suffix "not". You cannot pub verb suffixes on a noun and vice versa.
If you want to say "unregistered/unrecorded House", you can say:
ta ghajbe'bogh tuq
House without (that "doesn't have") a record
qun ghajbe'bogh tuq
House without (that "doesn't have") a history
tuq qonbe'lulbogh
House that hasn't been recorded
>>A new proposal (#2):
>> 2. tuq'obe' (Order of Houses) A registered House on The Empire
>>that does not meet the requirements to have a voting seat on the High
>>Council. This House must place its vote through the Councilor at Large.
>
>'obe' - order, group officially recognized by government (n)
>
> 'obe' is an order: Order of the
>betleH, Order of the Scottish Rite.....it's usage doesn't fit into what
>you're doing here. If there were a tuq'obe', it would be more akin to a
>home owners association, or an Order of Houses.
This would be two words: *{tuq 'obe'} "Order of (the) Houses"
Compare {betleH 'obe'} "Order of the Bat'leth", the highest honor that the
government bestows on a Klingon.
>> 3. tuqHutlh (House do not have) A member of The Empire that has
>>a House but that House has not been registered with The Empire or a
>>member of The Empire that does not belong to a House; neither has voting
>>rights in the High Council. This House or Member must place his/her vote
>>through the Councilor at Large.
>>
>>Hutlh - lack, be without, not have (v)
>
>Hutlh.....you say in the definition that they may well have a house,
>just not one on record.
Again, gibberish. You can't combine verbs and nouns together like this.
tuq Hutlh
He/She lacks a House. They lack a House.
You can make a relative clause describing a person (N.B. three separate words):
tuq Hutlhbogh loD/be'
man/woman without ("that lacks") a House
If you're looking for a three-stage system of House, this is the way I
would do it:
tuqHom "minor House"
tuq "[regular, average] House"
tuq'a' "major House" (i.e. one represented on the High Council)
Another option is to use the qualities {nIv} "be superior" and {QIv} "be
inferior" i.e. in rank or status along with {motlh} "be usual, be normal,
be standard" if you wish:
tuq QIv "inferior House"
tuq [motlh] "[standard] House" - {motlh} is optional
tuq nIv "superior House"
Qapla'!
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
