[83904] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: Using the verb DuH (was Art of War Chp. 1 (section 3/3))
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Agnieszka Solska)
Wed Jan 9 17:45:22 2008
From: "Agnieszka Solska" <agnpau1@hotmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:42:28 +0000
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
qa'vaj:
>Dupmeyvammo' Qaplu'.
>vIHchoHpa' gho luwuqlu'meH DuHbe'.
>
>These are the strategies leading to victory.
>They cannot be settled in advance [D].
>
>I went over and over the last sentence trying to figure out what the
>subject of {DuHbe'} is. {DuH}, "be possible", is a hard verb to use
>because it begs to have a sentence-as-subject construction. I kept wanting
>to use the generic 'It' as the subject "It's not possible to decide these
>strategies in advance", which I know is wrong (SIS notwithstanding).
>However, I finally decided that {Dupmeyvam} must be the subject, and
>perhaps this sentence is following the {Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam} template for
>the usage of a {-meH} clause. This is an interesting way to solve the
>problem of using DuH, and since 'ISqu' didn't footnote it, I wonder if this
>has been discussed somewhere (HolQeD?).
You're right. I should have footnoted it. The reason I forgot to do it was
probably because I had used similar constructions quite a few times in my
translation of the Tao Te Ching and no one ever commented on it. The
relevant lines in the Tao Te Ching and the admittedly controversial fragment
{luwuqlu'meH DuHbe'} are based on a line from ST5 {qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?}, said
by Vixis:
vIqSIS: qaH, HoD, DoS wIghoStaH. nejwI' tIQ 'oH.
tlha'a': *qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?*
vIqSIS: Qatlhqu'.
tlha'a': maj.
There was a lively discussion about this line on the mailing list, parts of
which ended up in one of HolQeD's Round Tables (HolQeD 8:3). Some
participants argued that the seemingly subjectless {Qatlh'a'} is indeed
subjectless, just like {Do'Ha'} in the following fragment from ST3:
valQIS: Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej.
Qugh: vaj Daleghpu'.
valQIS: HISlaH jawwI'.
Qugh: Do'Ha'.
valQIS: jIyaj.
(One of the secrecy proverbs could serve as another example of a similar
usage:
{De' lI' Sovlu'DI' chaq Do'Ha'.}
"Knowledge of useful information may be unfortunate." PK)
Other participants took the view that {qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?} should be
interpreted as containing an unexpressed subject, though they couldn't agree
on what word of phrase might be that subject (the probe mentioned by Vixis,
the task of hitting it, something else?).
To the best of my knowledge, the problem remains unresolved. Still, the line
is there and it is canon. I wouldn't go as far as to recommend similar
constructions for general use. However, I was quite glad of the existence of
{qIpmeH Qatlh'a'?} while translating The Tao Te Ching as it equipped me with
yet another tool to express certain meanings. On quite a few occasions
building sentences modeled on it allowed me to retain the rhythm and/or the
rhyme which would otherwise be lost. I may still change the line in the Art
of War which triggered this discussion but I can't promise never to use
similar constructions again.
'ISqu'
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
