[83874] in tlhIngan-Hol
Using the verb DuH (was Art of War Chp. 1 (section 3/3))
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qa'vaj)
Tue Jan 8 00:19:55 2008
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 23:16:30 -0600
From: qa'vaj <darqang99@gmail.com>
To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
This is in reference to a sentence from "The Art of War" in the following
passage:
Dupmeyvammo' Qaplu'.
vIHchoHpa' gho luwuqlu'meH DuHbe'.
These are the strategies leading to victory.
They cannot be settled in advance [D].
Since this is an issue more with my understanding of tlhIngan Hol rather
than the translation, I've pulled the question out as a separate thread.
I went over and over the last sentence trying to figure out what the subject
of {DuHbe'} is. {DuH}, "be possible", is a hard verb to use because it begs
to have a sentence-as-subject construction. I kept wanting to use the
generic 'It' as the subject "It's not possible to decide these strategies in
advance", which I know is wrong (SIS notwithstanding). However, I finally
decided that {Dupmeyvam} must be the subject, and perhaps this sentence is
following the {Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam} template for the usage of a {-meH}
clause. This is an interesting way to solve the problem of using DuH, and
since 'ISqu' didn't footnote it, I wonder if this has been discussed
somewhere (HolQeD?). I have a vague recollection of following a thread here
in the forum regarding DuH, but don't recall the outcome.
{Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam} was really hard for me to get my mind around when I
first encountered it. From the description of the {-meH} clause (applied to
verbs) I tended to think that the purpose being described was related to the
intention or motivation of the subject of the verb. However in {Heghlu'meH
QaQ jajvam}, {QaQ jajvam} seems to be an opinion expressed by the speaker,
and the {-meH} clause appears to be describing the reason why the speaker is
stating the opinion. Certainly, {jajvam} didn't choose to be {QaQ}. "I
judge this day to be good when considered from the aspect of someone dying."
(as a kind of loose way to look at it).
So the full-up sentence from "The Art of War" would be:
vIHchoHpa' gho Dupmeyvam luwuqlu'meH DuHbe' Dupmeyvam.
"These strategies are impossible (when considered from the aspect of
deciding upon them in advance)."
Using {-meH} is a clever way to go, but it doesn't look like it works as a
general solution. "It's not possible to open that door." {lojmItvetlh
poSmoHlu'meH DuHbe' ???}.
--
qa'vaj
qo'lIj DachenmoHtaH
