[2765] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: verangan mughghach?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Tue Jan 25 10:14:56 1994
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
From: baruch@nynexst.com (Robert Baruch)
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 10:06:21 EST
SaghItlhneS
Hu' law' ghItlh Nick Nicholas:
| batlh choja', Robert Baruch quv:
(To save on space, I've only included the corrections you made to
my translations with which I have a problem or an interesting
observation)
|
| =be'pu' loDpu' je, ramvam Dujatlhbe' Mr. Thompson.
| =Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Thompson will not speak to you tonight.
| SuvwI'pu' quv, {qaStaHvIS ramvam|DaHjaj ram|DaHjaj} Dujatlhbe' Thompson.
This is a persistent problem I have -- translating the syntax
while ignoring the semantics. <sigh>
Out of your choices for "tonight" I would prefer {DaHjaj ram} (today's night).
|
| =John Galt 'Iv 'e' DaH wa'maH cha' DIS Datlhobta'
| =For twelve years you have been asking: Who is John Galt?
| John Galt 'Iv
| DaH qaStaHvIS wa'maH cha' DIS 'e' {Dayu'ta'|DaSovqangta'}
| (tlhob, as the TKD appendix dictionary will tell you, means "request", not
| "ask a question").
It also means ask, plead. I still think {tlhob} carries the meaning
with fidelity. Anyone?
I'm not sure I understand the construction of your sentence. It
appears to be:
<statement> <duration-phrase> 'e' <verb phrase>
First problem: if {'e'} is a pointer to a previous sentence, shouldn't
that pointer occur between the statement and the duration-phrase -- because
the duration phrase modifies the verb phrase.
Second problem: According to TKD 6.2.5, you don't use {'e'} or {net} with
verbs of saying (p. 67 middle of page). So if we just take out the {'e'},
maybe the sentence is OK now.
|
| =John Galt ghaH jatlhtaHbogh ghotvam. yInDaj muSHa'bogh loD jIH.
| =This is John Galt speaking. I am the man who loves his life.
| John Galt jIH [why not?]. yInDaj muSHa'bogh loD jIH.
I would prefer {John Galt jIHqu'} (/I/ am John Galt).
|
| =bangDaj joq lo'laHghachmeyDaj jeghbe'bogh loD jIH.
| =I am the man who does not sacrifice his love or his values.
| muSHa'ghachDaj DanISghach qechDaj joq jeghbe'bogh loD jIH.
| (at least, I suspect bang means only 'lover')
| (value is ideology, not worth)
Oh boy. This is one of the tough ones. I agree with your rejection of
my translation of "values", but I don't agree with your translation,
either. {DanISghach} = "the needing to behave"? Did I get that right?
I wanted something more along the lines of "values" = "things which
are /considered/ to be honorable". I stress "considered" because values
are different for different individuals. It would be simple to just
translate values as "things which cause honor" = {quvmoHbogh Dochmey}
or even just {quvmoHghach}. But the problem with this is, do Klingons
have different ideas of honor? If so, then Klingons have individual
values, and "his values" has meaning. If not, then Klingons have
a collective value system, and "his values" has no meaning.
| =lughghach Seng DISmey DISmeyvam boQoypu'.
| =You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis.
| DaH qaS DanISghach Seng bov 'e' boQoypu'.
| "moral" meaning "how people should behave"
OK, here I agree. Morality, unlike a value system, is objective, not
subjective.
|
| =pagh <meaning> lughaj mu'mey.
| =that the words had no meaning.
| pagh HechtaHghach lughaj mu'meyvam.
Well, I went over this phrase with a friend, and we came up with
{chIm mu'meyvam} = "those words were empty"
Actually, that would only work if {chIm} were a general emptiness
word, as opposed to a physical emptiness word. "His mind is empty"
has different connotations from "His refrigerator is empty".
--Rob
