[2564] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: -bogh question
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Fri Jan 14 19:31:26 1994
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
From: Will Martin <whm2m@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu>
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 94 19:27:00 EST
On Jan 14, 2:00pm, Robert Baruch wrote:
> Subject: Re: -bogh question
>
> marqem,
>
> | > For example, suppose I wanted to translate "You, my friend, are
strange."
>
> | TKD tells us the syntax for this
> | kind of sentence in section 5.6 (p. 58):
> |
> | jupwIj bIHuj
>
> Ah, I see. Supposing, though, I want to be a fortune cookie and
> say something like "He who is dishonest is always disgraced". Now there
> really is a relative clause in there. Would the construction be
> as I suggested --
>
> web yuD ghaHbogh ghaH
>
> --Rob
This is REEEEEEEEALy ugly. If I were to write such a cookie stuffer, it
would say:
bIyuDchugh bIwebbej
Then again, the message is so obvious as to make such a sentence
frivolous.
My grammatical point is that my (mis?)understanding is that a relative
clause typically functions to point to an entity relative to another entity,
hence the name. Your example is more of a logical progression. Still, I'm
sure if you push hard enough, you will manage to find a valid example of this
kind of double pronoun relative clause. It will still be ugly.
Just check out the cannon. Pronouns don't really happen all that often,
except for {'e'}. (Now THERE'S a challenge. Check out how often Okrand has
really used pronouns in the movies and tapes. I have made no effort at
checking this out, but my sense is that it is, to a significant degree,
proportionally more rare in cannon than on this list, ESPECIALLY if you count
pronouns used as verbs.)
I mean, why didn't Okrand just say, {jIH pagh jIHbe'}? Admittedly, what
he came up with ({taH pagh taHbe'}) was nothing to write home about, but the
truth is WHEN YOU PUT A LOT OF EFFORT INTO SEARCHING HOW BEST TO EXPRESS
VARIATIONS ON THE VERB "TO BE", ODDS ARE YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT. It just
doesn't HAPPEN all that often in Klingon. It does happen, but not very often.
Klingons generally tend to be more interested in what things DO than in what
things ARE. I'm reminded of Worf's "You mean we're just supposed to SIT
here?" Humans be. Klingons do.
Sheesh.
-- charghwI'
