[2501] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: REPOST: Gettysburg, and Anthrakes o Thesauros
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Tue Jan 11 13:48:52 1994
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
From: Will Martin <whm2m@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu>
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 94 13:43:13 EST
On Jan 11, 4:13am, Nick NICHOLAS wrote:
> Subject: REPOST: Gettysburg, and Anthrakes o Thesauros
> batlh choja', Will Martin quv:
>
> = DaH veS'a' wIchenmoHtaHvIS Suv'eghlI' wo'maj
> =[Nick: Do you prefer that we cause this war to take form better than
fighting
> =the war? I grok the problem of fighting a war. That is probably an English
> =idiom. We fight the enemy. We do not fight the war).]
>
> Correct. "Fighting a war" is idiomatic in many a language, and we have no
> way of knowing whether Klingon is one of them, but it's always safest to
> assume it isn't. Myself, though, I would limit "chenmoH" to physical
objects,
> and would instead use "wIqasmoHtaHvIS".
mu'lIj vIparHa'qu'.
> = taHlaHtaH'a' wo'maj vay' wo' raplaw' joq 'e' toblI' noHvam
>
> It's decidedly risky to use raplaw' as an adjective; doesn't TKD rule
against
> all suffixes on adjectives but for qu' and, from an inspection of the
> vocabulary, possibly -be' and -Ha'? In fact, I use type 5 suffixes to
> *distinguish* between verbs and adjectives. The most sensible thing to do
> here is use a relative clause.
That or take poetic license and just say {wo' rap}. I agree on the
impropriety of -law'. In the midst of translation, it is easy to grab a
suffix because it adds the MEANING I want without realizing that I'm
violating grammatical rules. Working on smaller texts, it is easier to check
every detail. I am pleased I made as few blunders as I seem to have made, and
I appreciate your attention to polishing this further. I will continue to
work on this.
> For your conclusion to the address, two comments; they will hardly endear
> me to you, but yISIQ.
qay'be'.
> First, I am quite disappointed that you did not
> endeavour a literal translation of the final period of the speech --- more
> so when two translations thereof have been posted here.
The problem is that I didn't like either one of them. I then sought to
do better and rediscovered why I didn't translate that last sentence the
FIRST time. I then copped out and decided to be a Klingon and write my OWN
ending, carrying the FEELING of the ending without the eloquent convolutions
that Lincoln chose to pile into one thunder-crasher of a sentence. I felt
that this would actually be closer to the FEEL of the speech than a literal
filtering of the words. Perhaps I failed.
> A translation of
> the address missing that criticial last sentence may be more Klingonic, but
> seems to hardly count as a translation any more. Second, I don't want to
> revive
> that whole Bible dispute, but feel it fair to remind this mostly American
> list that, just as there are those who, quite rightfully, are vexed by
> anything seeming like the greater glorification of Christianity, there are
> also those (not significantly fewer in number) who would similarly object
> to anything seeming like the greater glorification of the United States.
> The lesson to draw from this, I would hope, is not to refuse to translate
> this or that, but to live and let live, given that it is unlikely for there
> to be anything one person holds dear which another will not revile.
I do not personally think the U.S. is very glorious. I translated this
speech because it has the kind of passion that seems part of the Klingon
psyche. In the translation, in MY mind, I was filling in the blank of which
nation was glorious with Qo'noS. Meanwhile, those who are translating the
bible have no such translation of their subject matter. When they speak of
God, they mean the SAME god that they've been talking about for the past
couple thousand years. It's the same heaven. The same everything. It is a
human system of myths intending to invade its way into the Klingon culture
just like it has invaded every OTHER indigenous culture on Earth. I'm not
trying to make Klingons American the way the Christians would like to make
the Klingons Christian. OKAY?
> I do have to admit, however, that your translation has been the most
fluent-
> sounding Klingon I have read --- all the more chagrin for me, since that
> is not how *I* would have translated it! ;) --- and I congratulate you on
> cutting all those Gordian knots I wouldn't have.
You honor me. I thank you. I will continue to work on the speech.
I also agree that the addition to the vocabulary was dissappointing.
-- charghwI'
