[1464] in tlhIngan-Hol
locatives in relative clauses
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Sun Aug 29 03:40:00 1993
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
From: DSTRADER@delphi.com
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1993 02:34:50 -0400 (EDT)
X-Vms-To: IN%"tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us"
There has been some discussion on how one would translate a relative
clause whose head noun is a prepositional object, e.g., "the ship from
which, the officer because of which, etc." No concrete conclusion was
reached, altho I did point out that it appeared safe to allow the
head noun to be only the subject or object of the relative verb and
carry its prepositional function in the main clause. Or else, portray
the meaning of the sentence with some other grammatical form.
However, I have just found one sentence contrary to this guideline
which appears at the top of page 172 in the appendix of TKD.
{jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'} "I'm lost," or more literally, "I don't
know where I am." It appears to be combining {naDev vISovbe'} for
"I don't know hereabouts/this place here," and {jIHtaH naDev}, "I
am here." One correction however: As section 6.3 states "The pronoun
always follows the noun.." this should be {naDev jIHtaHbogh vISovbe'}.
(Remember Okrand is liable for mistakes; his status as creator of the
lexicon doesn't justify anything of his that can be recognized as an
error.)
Anyways, it opens Klingon expressiveness withphrases like
{Dat ghoSbogh lutlha'}, "They follow everywhere he goes,"
in which Dat is the thing being followed, not necessarily
the person. There are restrictions: only the words Dat, naDev
and pa' can be used since these are the only nouns whose function
is never locative (section 3.3.5, pg.27 of TKD). Being purely
positional words, they can act as subject or object of a verb
and still carry a locational meaning.
One final example, which has a particularly interesting feature:
{pa' SoHtaHbogh bIr}. Look at the English translation...
"It is cold where you are." What exactly is "It" in "It is cold???"
Klingon gets around this bizarre technicality by using pa' as the
subject of bIr {bIr pa' SoHtaHbogh}. "Thereabouts/That place there,
where you are, is cold." Of course, maybe if you wanted to
specifically express the discomfort of whom you're talking to,
you just might say {pa' bIbIr}, implying that the person rather
the person rather than the place is cold.
DaH jIrIn -- Guido#1 ...
