[124] in tlhIngan-Hol
RE: Question about relative clauses
dcctdw@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (dcctdw@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Sun Feb 16 15:24:21 1992
Errors-To: tlhIngan-Hol-request@village.boston.ma.us
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
From: "MAPLE::BANG" <BANG%MAPLE.decnet@pine.circa.ufl.edu>
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@village.boston.ma.us>
Date: 23 Jan 92 19:08:00 EST
Eddie,
About relative clauses and vagueness, I would point out a parallel
between tlhIngan and Japanese. In both cases, subjects and objects are
frequently left out... the context is supposed to be enough to tell
the listener what is going on.
Informal Rule for Japanese:
If the subject (object) is obvious, leave it out.
If its not obvious, leave it out anyway.
I dunno what refinements happened in the new dictionary, but from the first
edition, my overall impression was that except for direct orders in a military
situation there was a good deal of vagueness built into the language. I found
this interesting because vagueness is also built into the Japanese language
and culture (which I'm currently studying...surprise(not)).
In both cases, one of the virtues of this vagueness is that it makes
it rather difficult to pin the blame for something on somebody, and opinions
expressed that later turn out to be 'unpolitic' are extremely easy to
change/deny since nobody really had a clear idea just what the heck youmeant
in the first place. It's a shady kinda thing: Officer K'Bang states that
agreement exists about a certain point. This is later shown to be foolish.
Now, EVERYBODY knows he really agreed, since they've been 'listening between
the lines' since birth, but the only UNDENIABLE record is this meaningless
"agreement exists"(please, no flames about the verb 'to exist'... its just
an example!). What agreement? Who is doing the agreeing? What conditions
are there on the agreeing? Nobody knows, and K'Bang is free to change his
stance with the benefit of hindsight so that he comes outta the whole mess
clean as a ship's whistle.
This is done in English, too...just listen to your favorite
congresscritter weasle about a sensitive point. But English is well suited
to exactitudes: clear cut meanings, no loose ends, so this kind of verbal
squirming about usually sounds like exactly what it is.
tlhIngan and Japanese both, however, are just MADE for this kind of
squerrely BS... and (I extrapolate tlhIngan history here) their respective
cultures practically DEMAND that the language be vague.
In any case, one tlhIngan killing another tlhIngan (at least in the
aristocracy, between those who matter) is kind of an everyday occurrence,
and one saying that he killed the officer or the prisoner either:
A) will have a clear record behind him so that context eliminates
any question, or
B) will be talking about something so blase that nobody really CARES
whether just-another-officer or just-another-prisoner got killed,
or
C) The officer was the EMPORER, or the prisoner was KIRK, in which case
if (A) doesn't already apply, he's darn sure gonna show evidence
that will make it apply, and again, it's kinda a moot point.
So, what does all this drivel come down to:
It's a vague language, and (in my opinion) it's that way on purpose.
Leave it so, don't sweat the small potatoes, and if it's really that important
to get your meaning across, use another sentence to refine. Besides, if your
listener isn't smart enough to understand what you really mean, thats his
problem, right?
(Sorry, I can't spen the time to come up with all theh nifty tlhIngan-hol
examples that everyone else does...I mean, I *want* to, but my head is
too full of Japanese right now to try... maybe next time)
Sorry to drone on, but I hope you found this enlightening. BTW, for a full
explanation of "The Virtues of Vagueness", pick up "Japanese in Action", by
Jack Seward (Weatherhill, New York and Tokyo, ISBN:0-8348-0033-0). Lots
of stuff useful to the study of ANY language, not just Japanese. And funny,
too!
(now) (understood object:this letter) (end it) (understood subject:I)
Larry Oshins BANG@maple.circa.ufl.edu (I think!)
