[112301] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] If only we could use twice to say..
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ed Bailey)
Wed Mar 20 13:04:44 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmM8VSs_vucUmcU6zxDe8hbz_dkhY-K5GvSxYG24CNEfKA@mail.gmail.com>
From: Ed Bailey <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 12:57:16 -0400
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 4:55 AM De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:07, Ed Bailey <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> No surprises on the use of* -logh* in MKE: It says *Duj ghajchugh
>> vay, cha'logh boq'egh qav'ap motlh; chen qav'ap le'. ghajwI'vaD qav'ap le'
>> yIDIl.* "If owned, pay owner twice the rental to which they are
>> otherwise entitled."
>>
>> (But it is proof that actual numbers aren't required in arithmetic
>> expressions; as one might expect, it's possible to insert a word like
>> *qav'ap* that has some numeric value that may be unspecified.
>> Also, something I hadn't noticed before: evidently *DIl* can be used to
>> mean "pay (the amount paid)," and not just the gloss of "pay for,"
>>
>
> How so? {qav'ap} "rent" is a thing that you pay for. You're paying for
> rent, not for the amount of the rent (though this happens to be how much
> you have to pay).
>
The translation on the card makes it clear the amount paid is the thing
that's being doubled. I have heard "rental" (but never "rent") used as a
noun to mean the thing paid for, i.e. the use of a property for a period of
time, but that's not what the Monopoly card means. If it meant the thing
you pay for is doubled, you'd get to stay an extra turn, right? The KLI New
Words List gives the gloss as "rent, cost, price, value," all words that
indicate an amount of money to pay for a thing or that the amount a thing
is supposedly worth.
>
>
so you might say *Duj vIje'meH wa' 'uy' DarSeq vIDIlpu'* "I paid one
>> million darseks to buy the ship."
>>
>
> I don't think that's right. That says that you paid for one million
> darseks (i.e., you bought one million darseks, using something else).
>
That's what I thought until yesterday.
My takeaway from the Monopoly card is the object can be either, but not the
person being paid, who would still take *-vaD*.
~mIp'av
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 4:55 AM De'vI=
D <<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a=
>> wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_at=
tr">On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 21:07, Ed Bailey <<a href=3D"mailto:belleroph=
on.modeler@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">No surprises on the use of<b> -logh</b> in MKE:=
It says <b>Duj ghajchugh vay,=C2=A0cha'logh boq'egh qav'ap mot=
lh; chen qav'ap le'.=C2=A0ghajwI'vaD qav'ap le' yIDIl.<=
/b>=C2=A0"If owned, pay owner twice the rental to which they are other=
wise entitled."<div><b><br></b><div>(But it is proof that actual numbe=
rs aren't required in arithmetic expressions; as one might expect, it&#=
39;s possible to insert a word like <b>qav'ap</b> that has some numeric=
value that may be unspecified.</div><div>Also, something I hadn't noti=
ced before: evidently=C2=A0<b>DIl</b> can be used to mean "pay (the am=
ount paid)," and not just the gloss of "pay for," </div></di=
v></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>How so? {qav'ap} "r=
ent" is a thing that you pay for. You're paying for rent, not for =
the amount of the rent (though this happens to be how much you have to pay)=
.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The translation o=
n the card makes it clear the amount paid is the thing that's being dou=
bled. I have heard "rental" (but never "rent") used as =
a noun to mean the thing paid for, i.e. the use of a property for a period =
of time, but that's not what the Monopoly card means. If it meant the t=
hing you pay for is doubled, you'd get to stay an extra turn, right? Th=
e KLI New Words List gives the gloss as "rent, cost, price, value,&quo=
t; all words that indicate an amount of money to pay for a thing or that th=
e amount a thing is supposedly worth.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>so you might sa=
y <b>Duj vIje'meH wa' 'uy' DarSeq vIDIlpu'</b> "I =
paid one million darseks to buy the ship."=C2=A0</div></div></div></di=
v>
</blockquote></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div>I don't think that's =
right. That says that you paid for one million darseks (i.e., you bought on=
e million darseks, using something else).</div></div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>That's what I thought until yesterday.</div><div>My takeaway=
from the Monopoly card is the object can be either, but not the person bei=
ng paid, who would still take <b>-vaD</b>.</div><div><br></div><div>~mIp=
9;av</div></div></div>
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