[112253] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] when -laH cripples the -lu'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Mar 18 13:19:27 2019
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2019 13:19:22 -0400
In-Reply-To: <tb75g9cb7a882c5u8n0uae9l.1552929038385@email.android.com>
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On 3/18/2019 1:10 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
>
> Or, "all is -lu' good for..".
>
>
> Suppose I want to write a long passage with the subject of lets say
> training, and whether someone who has a demanding day job, can
> actually do serious training.
>
>
> Naturally, during this passage, I will need to say a lot "someone who
> has a demanding job.. someone who works many hours a day.. someone who
> is often tired.. someone who is able or unable to simultaneously
> train, and so on..".
>
>
> And naturally my choice would be, since I'm writing about someone
> unspecified, to use -lu'.
>
>
> But here starts the problem.. One can't use simultaneously -lu' and -laH.
>
>
> On the other hand, in a long passage where in order to refer to
> "someone" the -lu' is used, it is not advised to be constantly
> switching from -lu' to vay', when the need to say "someone is/isn't
> able to do whatever".
>
>
> So, in a long passage, the only way to avoid this problem is either
> using only vay' from the start, or just saying wa' nuv, to refer to "a
> person".
>
>
> Meaning, that unfortunately all is -lu' really good for, is to produce
> the equivalent of passive voice, in a language which doesn't have a
> passive voice, to start with..
>
You'd have to show me your attempt before I thought this was a problem.
In a long passage I would expect the writer to start using specific
nouns: *vumqu'wI'*/hard worker,/ *Hoch jaj qaStaHvIS rep law' vumbogh
ghot*/person who works for many hours a day,/ *Doy'wI'*/tired one,/
*qeqlaHbe'wI'*/one who cannot train./
I use *-lu'* all the time, and not regularly to translate English
passive voice.
Show me a text you want to translate that you think runs into an
irreconcilable *-lu'/laH* clash.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/18/2019 1:10 PM, mayqel qunen'oS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:tb75g9cb7a882c5u8n0uae9l.1552929038385@email.android.com">
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Or, "all is
-lu' good for..".</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Suppose I want
to write a long passage with the subject of lets say training,
and whether someone who has a demanding day job, can actually do
serious training.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Naturally,
during this passage, I will need to say a lot "someone who has a
demanding job.. someone who works many hours a day.. someone who
is often tired.. someone who is able or unable to simultaneously
train, and so on..".</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">And naturally
my choice would be, since I'm writing about someone unspecified,
to use -lu'.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">But here
starts the problem.. One can't use simultaneously -lu' and -laH.</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">On the other
hand, in a long passage where in order to refer to "someone" the
-lu' is used, it is not advised to be constantly switching from
-lu' to vay', when the need to say "someone is/isn't able to do
whatever".</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">So, in a long
passage, the only way to avoid this problem is either using only
vay' from the start, or just saying wa' nuv, to refer to "a
person".</p>
<br>
<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0;">Meaning, that
unfortunately all is -lu' really good for, is to produce the
equivalent of passive voice, in a language which doesn't have a
passive voice, to start with..</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You'd have to show me your attempt before I thought this was a
problem. In a long passage I would expect the writer to start
using specific nouns: <b>vumqu'wI'</b><i> hard worker,</i> <b>Hoch
jaj qaStaHvIS rep law' vumbogh ghot</b><i> person who works for
many hours a day,</i> <b>Doy'wI'</b><i> tired one,</i> <b>qeqlaHbe'wI'</b><i>
one who cannot train.</i></p>
<p>I use <b>-lu'</b> all the time, and not regularly to translate
English passive voice.</p>
<p>Show me a text you want to translate that you think runs into an
irreconcilable <b>-lu'/laH</b> clash.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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