[112178] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ghItlh and jatlh
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Mar 12 11:52:23 2019
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 11:52:19 -0400
In-Reply-To: <d7c4a2d0-1a08-1475-e7f9-c8224c30b6d5@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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On 3/12/2019 11:42 AM, SuStel wrote:
> On 3/12/2019 11:27 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
>> Is ghItlh to be treated as jatlh, with regards to quotations and
>> reporting things others have written ?
>
> No.
>
> So far as I know, only *jatlh* and *ja'* have been confirmed as "verbs
> of saying." *tlhob* is used as a verb of saying in /Power Klingon,/
> but in his interview with charghwI' about this
> <http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt>, he says that
> *tlhob, jang, *and*ghel* aren't used as verbs of saying. He was asked
> about and failed to answer to *bach* (slang), *chel, chup, jach,* and
> *SIv.*
>
He also used *jang* as a verb of saying three times in /paq'batlh,/ if
these aren't some of those lines translated by someone else. Here's the
first:
*lujang meQboghnom 'oH
yeqchuqchu'taHghach
Daw' je joqwI'
*
/They reply it is the meQboghnom,
The banner of unity
And revolution.
/
The word *ra'* specifically avoids being a verb of saying in
/paq'batlh,/ and then in the very next stanza *jang *is used as a verb
of saying again:
*mangghomvam DevwI'
luDel 'e' ra' molor
vaj ghaH lujang*
*mangghom luDev wej loD
wa' Doj law' Hoch Doj puS
'etlhDaj jeq vagh DuQwI'Hom*
/Molor asks them,
Who leads these armies,
And they reply:/
/"Three men lead the army
With one who is most impressive
With a five pointed blade."/
*tlhob* is used twice in /paq'batlh,/ each time avoiding being a verb of
saying by using *'e',* like *ra' *above. *ghel* does not appear in
/paq'batlh./
*jach* does appear in /paq'batlh,/ and sometimes it's a verb of saying
and sometimes it's not. Here's one where it's not:
*jach veqlargh jatlh
muqaD vay' 'ej ghe'tor 'el porgh
nuqDaq ghaH petaQ'e'*
/He [Fek'lhr] screamed: "Where is the p'takh
Who dares to enter Gre'thor
Within a body?!/
In each case where it is a verb of saying, it's the last word of a
stanza, and the next stanza is the quotation.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/12/2019 11:42 AM, SuStel wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:d7c4a2d0-1a08-1475-e7f9-c8224c30b6d5@trimboli.name">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/12/2019 11:27 AM, mayqel
qunen'oS wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2c+U2cv7FOYy805pdEdJTdZ67jv2utXT=x1UL_AqV_t04A@mail.gmail.com">Is
ghItlh to be treated as jatlh, with regards to quotations and
reporting things others have written ?</blockquote>
<p>No.</p>
<p>So far as I know, only <b>jatlh</b> and <b>ja'</b> have been
confirmed as "verbs of saying." <b>tlhob</b> is used as a verb
of saying in <i>Power Klingon,</i> but in his interview with
charghwI' about this <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt"
moz-do-not-send="true"><http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt></a>,
he says that <b>tlhob, jang, </b>and<b> ghel</b> aren't used
as verbs of saying. He was asked about and failed to answer to <b>bach</b>
(slang), <b>chel, chup, jach,</b> and <b>SIv.</b></p>
</blockquote>
<p>He also used <b>jang</b> as a verb of saying three times in <i>paq'batlh,</i>
if these aren't some of those lines translated by someone else.
Here's the first:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>lujang meQboghnom 'oH<br>
yeqchuqchu'taHghach<br>
Daw' je joqwI'<br>
</b></p>
<p><i>They reply it is the meQboghnom,<br>
The banner of unity<br>
And revolution.<br>
</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>The word <b>ra'</b> specifically avoids being a verb of saying
in <i>paq'batlh,</i> and then in the very next stanza <b>jang </b>is
used as a verb of saying again:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>mangghomvam DevwI'<br>
luDel 'e' ra' molor<br>
vaj ghaH lujang</b></p>
<p><b>mangghom luDev wej loD<br>
wa' Doj law' Hoch Doj puS<br>
'etlhDaj jeq vagh DuQwI'Hom</b></p>
<p><i>Molor asks them,<br>
Who leads these armies,<br>
And they reply:</i></p>
<p><i>"Three men lead the army<br>
With one who is most impressive<br>
With a five pointed blade."</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p><b>tlhob</b> is used twice in <i>paq'batlh,</i> each time
avoiding being a verb of saying by using <b>'e',</b> like <b>ra'
</b>above. <b>ghel</b> does not appear in <i>paq'batlh.</i></p>
<p><b>jach</b> does appear in <i>paq'batlh,</i> and sometimes it's
a verb of saying and sometimes it's not. Here's one where it's
not:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>jach veqlargh jatlh<br>
muqaD vay' 'ej ghe'tor 'el porgh<br>
nuqDaq ghaH petaQ'e'</b></p>
<p><i>He [Fek'lhr] screamed: "Where is the p'takh<br>
Who dares to enter Gre'thor<br>
Within a body?!</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>In each case where it is a verb of saying, it's the last word of
a stanza, and the next stanza is the quotation.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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