[112170] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] naDev and 'el
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Mar 11 15:38:15 2019
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 15:38:13 -0400
In-Reply-To: <91CBC774-82D7-43D5-962F-E12ABAF30351@mac.com>
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On 3/11/2019 2:41 PM, Will Martin wrote:
> Remember that Klingon doesn’t have articles. The presence of articles
> varies a lot by language, and there are arbitrary times in each
> language that has articles when articles are needed. French requires
> them more often than English. Malasian doesn’t have them at all.
> Turkish doesn’t have them. ASL doesn’t have them.
>
> The difference between the awkward “I enter the here” and the less
> awkward “I enter here” is all about the definite article, which is
> definitely unnecessary for “here”, since there is only one “here” in
> the Universe, defined by deictic reference of the statement that
> contains it. The Universe is full of places that are somebody’s
> “here”, but MY “here” is unique (even if it’s scope might be a bit vague).
>
> Imagine two people planning a military operation, looking at a map.
> The index finger points to the spot defining “Here”. “You enter here.”
>
> Does that seem awkward to you?
Except that isn't expressed by *naDev Da'el;*//it's expressed by *naDev
bI'el.* The former is like "you enter this place"; the latter is "at
this place, you enter (some other thing I'm talking about)."
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SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/11/2019 2:41 PM, Will Martin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:91CBC774-82D7-43D5-962F-E12ABAF30351@mac.com">
<div class="">Remember that Klingon doesn’t have articles. The
presence of articles varies a lot by language, and there are
arbitrary times in each language that has articles when articles
are needed. French requires them more often than English.
Malasian doesn’t have them at all. Turkish doesn’t have them.
ASL doesn’t have them. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The difference between the awkward “I enter the
here” and the less awkward “I enter here” is all about the
definite article, which is definitely unnecessary for “here”,
since there is only one “here” in the Universe, defined by
deictic reference of the statement that contains it. The
Universe is full of places that are somebody’s “here”, but MY
“here” is unique (even if it’s scope might be a bit vague).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Imagine two people planning a military operation,
looking at a map. The index finger points to the spot defining
“Here”. “You enter here.”</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Does that seem awkward to you?</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Except that isn't expressed by <b>naDev Da'el;</b><i> </i>it's
expressed by <b>naDev bI'el.</b> The former is like "you enter
this place"; the latter is "at this place, you enter (some other
thing I'm talking about)."</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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