[112168] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] naDev and 'el
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Mon Mar 11 14:49:13 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 14:41:21 -0400
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+aeZm8gdW4ut9Kanj-2tg7PqOKGeOx5iy4XocF4tddzw@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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Remember that Klingon doesn=E2=80=99t have articles. The presence of =
articles varies a lot by language, and there are arbitrary times in each =
language that has articles when articles are needed. French requires =
them more often than English. Malasian doesn=E2=80=99t have them at all. =
Turkish doesn=E2=80=99t have them. ASL doesn=E2=80=99t have them.=20
The difference between the awkward =E2=80=9CI enter the here=E2=80=9D =
and the less awkward =E2=80=9CI enter here=E2=80=9D is all about the =
definite article, which is definitely unnecessary for =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D=
, since there is only one =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D in the Universe, =
defined by deictic reference of the statement that contains it. The =
Universe is full of places that are somebody=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=
=9D, but MY =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is unique (even if it=E2=80=99s scope =
might be a bit vague).
Imagine two people planning a military operation, looking at a map. The =
index finger points to the spot defining =E2=80=9CHere=E2=80=9D. =E2=80=9C=
You enter here.=E2=80=9D
Does that seem awkward to you?
charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan
rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 pI=E2=80=99.
> On Mar 11, 2019, at 1:39 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> What troubled me about the naDev and the 'el, is that it sounds =
awkward in greek/english to say "I enter the here", which is the actual =
meaning of naDev vI'el.
>=20
> If I write Duj vI'el, then I feel it "normal": "I enter the ship". But =
the sound of "I enter the here", is rather strange.
>=20
> Anyways, I guess the awkwardness has to do with the fse translation, =
and not the actual klingon.
>=20
> I just didn't know whether the naDev can be used as a direct object.
>=20
> ~ changan qIj
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Remember that Klingon doesn=E2=80=99t have articles. The =
presence of articles varies a lot by language, and there are arbitrary =
times in each language that has articles when articles are needed. =
French requires them more often than English. Malasian doesn=E2=80=99t =
have them at all. Turkish doesn=E2=80=99t have them. ASL doesn=E2=80=99t =
have them. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">The difference between the awkward =E2=80=9CI enter the =
here=E2=80=9D and the less awkward =E2=80=9CI enter here=E2=80=9D is all =
about the definite article, which is definitely unnecessary for =
=E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D, since there is only one =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D =
in the Universe, defined by deictic reference of the statement that =
contains it. The Universe is full of places that are somebody=E2=80=99s =
=E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D, but MY =E2=80=9Chere=E2=80=9D is unique (even if =
it=E2=80=99s scope might be a bit vague).</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Imagine two people planning a military =
operation, looking at a map. The index finger points to the spot =
defining =E2=80=9CHere=E2=80=9D. =E2=80=9CYou enter here.=E2=80=9D</div><d=
iv class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Does that seem =
awkward to you?</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
pI=E2=80=99.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 11, 2019, at 1:39 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">What troubled me about the naDev and the 'el, is =
that it sounds awkward in greek/english to say "I enter the here", which =
is the actual meaning of naDev vI'el.<div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">If I write Duj vI'el, then =
I feel it "normal": "I enter the ship". But the sound of "I enter the =
here", is rather strange.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">Anyways, I guess the =
awkwardness has to do with the fse translation, and not the actual =
klingon.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">I just didn't know whether the naDev can be used =
as a direct object.</div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div dir=3D"auto" class=3D"">~ changan qIj</div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">tlhIngan-Hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" =
class=3D"">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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