[112126] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Does rIntaH require a sentient being ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (nIqolay Q)
Sat Mar 9 15:28:09 2019
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In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmPUr+wpJpYU4TgVp8Mq81zLqh8sFk3Lw4SHF_HBOS=YPw@mail.gmail.com>
From: nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2019 15:27:54 -0500
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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While we don't have an example of *rIntaH* with an overt subject, we do
have another data point we can use. When Okrand describes the tag question
*qar'a'*, he says it can "follow the verb", the same phrase he uses to
describe the placement of *rIntaH*. And we do have an example of *qar'a'*
followed by an explicit subject: *De' Sov qar'a' HoD* *The captain knows
the information, right? *Since Okrand describes both constructions as
"following the verb", it seems reasonable to me to conclude that (for
example) *De' Sov rIntaH HoD* *The captain knows the information for good*
is the proper use of *rIntaH*.
On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:50 AM De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2019 at 22:51, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Doing it as {vIje=E2=80=99 rIntaH jIH} only makes sense if, given that w=
ritten
>> Klingon as we know it is phonetic spelling of spoken Klingon, somehow
>> {rIntaH} has become a Type 10 suffix, so it always follows the verb and =
its
>> other suffixes, and any subject would follow it. Otherwise, I see no
>> justification for {rIntaH jIH}, since as a sentence, it would have to be
>> {jIrIntaH jIH}.
>>
>
> If it's acting like a suffix, then it's surely acting like a type 7,
> namely, the {-ta'} that it's replacing. Since we have no examples of a ty=
pe
> 8 ({-neS}) or type 9 following {rIntaH}, and the way we write Klingon is =
a
> phonetic transcription of how it's spoken, {vIje' rIntaH jIH} might as we=
ll
> be {vIje'rIntaH jIH} where {-rIntaH} is a two-syllable type 7 suffix.
> Indeed, since {ta'} "accomplish" and {taH} "continue" are verbs, one migh=
t
> speculate that they were verbs which became suffixes. Perhaps {rIntaH} is
> undergoing a similar evolution, but has resisted full assimilation as a
> suffix because it's two syllables.
>
> But until we have a canon (counter)example either way, we can't tell.
>
> --
> De'vID
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif">While we don't have an example of <b>rIntaH</b> wit=
h an overt subject, we do have another data point we can use. When Okrand d=
escribes the tag question <b>qar'a'</b>, he says it can "follo=
w the verb", the same phrase he uses to describe the placement of <b>r=
IntaH</b>. And we do have an example of <b>qar'a'</b> followed by a=
n explicit subject: <b>De' Sov qar'a' HoD</b> <i>The captain kn=
ows the information, right? </i>Since Okrand describes both constructions a=
s "following the verb", it seems reasonable to me to conclude tha=
t (for example) <b>De' Sov rIntaH HoD</b> <i>The captain knows the info=
rmation for good</i> is the proper use of <b>rIntaH</b>.<br><i></i></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"=
><i></i></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif"><i></i></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><i><br></i></div><div class=3D"gmail_defau=
lt" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><i></i><br></div></div=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sa=
t, Mar 9, 2019 at 1:50 AM De'vID <<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gm=
ail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></di=
v><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On F=
ri, 8 Mar 2019 at 22:51, Will Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:willmartin2@mac.=
com" target=3D"_blank">willmartin2@mac.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Doing it as {vIje=E2=80=
=99 rIntaH jIH} only makes sense if, given that written Klingon as we know =
it is phonetic spelling of spoken Klingon, somehow {rIntaH} has become a Ty=
pe 10 suffix, so it always follows the verb and its other suffixes, and any=
subject would follow it. Otherwise, I see no justification for {rIntaH jIH=
}, since as a sentence, it would have to be {jIrIntaH jIH}.=C2=A0</div></di=
v></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>If it's acting like a suffix, =
then it's surely acting like a type 7, namely, the {-ta'} that it&#=
39;s replacing. Since we have no examples of a type 8 ({-neS}) or type 9 fo=
llowing {rIntaH}, and the way we write Klingon is a phonetic transcription =
of how it's spoken, {vIje' rIntaH jIH} might as well be {vIje'r=
IntaH jIH} where {-rIntaH} is a two-syllable type 7 suffix. Indeed, since {=
ta'} "accomplish" and {taH} "continue" are verbs, o=
ne might speculate that they were verbs which became suffixes. Perhaps {rIn=
taH} is undergoing a similar evolution, but has resisted full assimilation =
as a suffix because it's two syllables.</div><div><br></div><div>But un=
til we have a canon (counter)example either way, we can't tell.</div><d=
iv><br></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail-m_6490972584301286097gm=
ail_signature">De'vID</div></div>
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</blockquote></div>
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