[112119] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Does rIntaH require a sentient being ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Fri Mar 8 16:51:02 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 16:50:57 -0500
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <05683b64-2761-3378-4992-f3a5d1693c25@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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That strikes me as peculiar. Since {vIje=E2=80=99} has the prefix =
assigning the subject to that verb, I would expect that for emphasis, if =
you wanted to add {jIH} it should go after {vIje=E2=80=99}, as in =
{vIje=E2=80=99 jIH rIntaH}.
Doing it as {vIje=E2=80=99 rIntaH jIH} only makes sense if, given that =
written Klingon as we know it is phonetic spelling of spoken Klingon, =
somehow {rIntaH} has become a Type 10 suffix, so it always follows the =
verb and its other suffixes, and any subject would follow it. Otherwise, =
I see no justification for {rIntaH jIH}, since as a sentence, it would =
have to be {jIrIntaH jIH}.=20
But as you point out, we have no data, so this is probably not something =
any of us can say with authority. I just see this as one of those =
details that isn=E2=80=99t important to resolve, since there are so many =
other ways of saying what this purports to say without getting weird =
with the grammar.
charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan
rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 pI=E2=80=99.
> On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:06 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>=20
> On 3/8/2019 3:17 PM, Will Martin wrote:
>> {rIntaH} also can follow a sentence to indicate that something is =
completely done.
>>=20
>> Both of these instances involve the verb {rIn} without its own =
subject, object, or prefix indicating subject or object.
> TKD says that rIntaH follows the verb. No examples of verbs with =
explicit subjects have occurred, so a strict reading of the text says =
that vIje' rIntaH jIH is more correct than vIje' jIH rIntaH. I would not =
be surprised if that weren't an absolute =E2=80=94 but again, we have no =
data.
>=20
> --=20
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name =
<http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">That strikes me as peculiar. Since {vIje=E2=80=99} has the =
prefix assigning the subject to that verb, I would expect that for =
emphasis, if you wanted to add {jIH} it should go after {vIje=E2=80=99}, =
as in {vIje=E2=80=99 jIH rIntaH}.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Doing it as {vIje=E2=80=99 rIntaH jIH} =
only makes sense if, given that written Klingon as we know it is =
phonetic spelling of spoken Klingon, somehow {rIntaH} has become a Type =
10 suffix, so it always follows the verb and its other suffixes, and any =
subject would follow it. Otherwise, I see no justification for {rIntaH =
jIH}, since as a sentence, it would have to be {jIrIntaH =
jIH}. </div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">But =
as you point out, we have no data, so this is probably not something any =
of us can say with authority. I just see this as one of those details =
that isn=E2=80=99t important to resolve, since there are so many other =
ways of saying what this purports to say without getting weird with the =
grammar.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
pI=E2=80=99.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 8, 2019, at 4:06 PM, SuStel <<a =
href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" =
class=3D"">sustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D"">
=20
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3DUTF-8" class=3D"">
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/2019 3:17 PM, Will Martin =
wrote:<br class=3D"">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" =
cite=3D"mid:E913BF4E-EA7B-42C6-889B-1B3C1CFB9DD0@mac.com" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">{rIntaH} also can follow a sentence to indicate =
that
something is completely done.</div>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Both of these instances involve the verb {rIn}
without its own subject, object, or prefix indicating subject or
object.</div>
</blockquote><p class=3D"">TKD says that <b class=3D"">rIntaH</b> =
follows the verb. No examples of
verbs with explicit subjects have occurred, so a strict reading of
the text says that <b class=3D"">vIje' rIntaH jIH</b> is more =
correct than <b class=3D"">vIje'
jIH rIntaH.</b> I would not be surprised if that weren't an
absolute =E2=80=94 but again, we have no data.<br class=3D"">
</p>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" =
href=3D"http://trimboli.name/">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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