[112113] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Does rIntaH require a sentient being ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Fri Mar 8 15:17:10 2019
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com>
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 15:17:06 -0500
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cLNS+ZjPnaai_LU8C3UxNX3mvBo1E2jsHL+n2M_6iam5g@mail.gmail.com>
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Unless there=E2=80=99s something grammatical here that I=E2=80=99m =
missing, you are saying two sentences:
[He, She, It, They] change[s] me. The oath=E2=80=99s words are finished.
There are two uses of {rIn} that mark it as different from normal =
Klingon verbs used in normal Klingon grammar:
{rIn} is used like the military uses the word =E2=80=9Cover=E2=80=9D to =
mark the end of a radio transmission, so that each side knows when =
it=E2=80=99s okay to push the =E2=80=9Ctalk=E2=80=9D button.
{rIntaH} also can follow a sentence to indicate that something is =
completely done.
Both of these instances involve the verb {rIn} without its own subject, =
object, or prefix indicating subject or object.
{rIn} , pronounced =E2=80=9Creen=E2=80=9D was used to mark the end of =
communication via radio in one of the movies.
{rIntaH} was used in ST3 in the line {qa=E2=80=99vam De=E2=80=99 vIje=E2=80=
=99 rIntaH} spoken by valQIS. I think this is the only time in canon =
that it has been used, and the whole reason it was used here is because =
in the scene, the actress was speaking English when the scene was shot, =
and Okrand had to come up with a Klingon line that would match her lip =
movements when the Klingon was dubbed in, and without {rIntaH}, she =
would have finished dubbing in her Klingon equivalent line and her lips =
would still be moving. Qugh is speaking Klingon, because his side of the =
scene was shot later, after hiring Okrand. ValQIS=E2=80=99s side of the =
conversation was shot before Okrand was hired. She dubbed her lines in =
later. All of her lines were shot with her saying exactly what the =
subtitles say she=E2=80=99s saying and dubbed into Klingon later.
Okrand worked hard to come up with a reason for her saying this, so he =
invented a little extra grammar, for which, so far as I know, he=E2=80=99s=
never used again. I wouldn=E2=80=99t invest a lot into seeing how far =
you can extend this grammar element. It just gets weird.
charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan
rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 pI=E2=80=99.
> On Mar 8, 2019, at 12:59 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Assume qeylIS writes an oath, which when heard, turns a coward to a =
warrior.
>=20
> And this effect of the oath cannot be undone. It is a magical oath of =
sorts.
>=20
> Could the former coward say:
>=20
> muchoH rIntaH 'ip mu'mey
> the words of the oath changed me
>=20
> Or is the rIntaH to be used, only when the one who {rIntaH}s is
> someone sentient ?
>=20
> ~ changan qIj
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Unless there=E2=80=99s something grammatical here that I=E2=80=99=
m missing, you are saying two sentences:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">[He, She, It, They] change[s] me. The =
oath=E2=80=99s words are finished.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">There are two uses of {rIn} that mark =
it as different from normal Klingon verbs used in normal Klingon =
grammar:</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">{rIn} =
is used like the military uses the word =E2=80=9Cover=E2=80=9D to mark =
the end of a radio transmission, so that each side knows when it=E2=80=99s=
okay to push the =E2=80=9Ctalk=E2=80=9D button.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">{rIntaH} also can follow a sentence to =
indicate that something is completely done.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Both of these instances involve the =
verb {rIn} without its own subject, object, or prefix indicating subject =
or object.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">{rIn}=
, pronounced =E2=80=9Creen=E2=80=9D was used to mark the end of =
communication via radio in one of the movies.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">{rIntaH} was used in ST3 in the line =
{qa=E2=80=99vam De=E2=80=99 vIje=E2=80=99 rIntaH} spoken by valQIS. I =
think this is the only time in canon that it has been used, and the =
whole reason it was used here is because in the scene, the actress was =
speaking English when the scene was shot, and Okrand had to come up with =
a Klingon line that would match her lip movements when the Klingon was =
dubbed in, and without {rIntaH}, she would have finished dubbing in her =
Klingon equivalent line and her lips would still be moving. Qugh is =
speaking Klingon, because his side of the scene was shot later, after =
hiring Okrand. ValQIS=E2=80=99s side of the conversation was shot before =
Okrand was hired. She dubbed her lines in later. All of her lines were =
shot with her saying exactly what the subtitles say she=E2=80=99s saying =
and dubbed into Klingon later.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Okrand worked hard to come up with a =
reason for her saying this, so he invented a little extra grammar, for =
which, so far as I know, he=E2=80=99s never used again. I wouldn=E2=80=99t=
invest a lot into seeing how far you can extend this grammar element. =
It just gets weird.</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;">charghwI=E2=80=99 vaghnerya=E2=80=99ngan<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">rInpa=E2=80=99 bomnIS be=E2=80=99=E2=80=99a=E2=80=99 =
pI=E2=80=99.</div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Mar 8, 2019, at 12:59 PM, mayqel qunen'oS <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Assume qeylIS writes an oath, which when heard, turns a =
coward to a warrior.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">And this effect of the =
oath cannot be undone. It is a magical oath of sorts.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">Could the former coward say:<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">muchoH rIntaH 'ip mu'mey<br class=3D"">the words of the oath =
changed me<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">Or is the rIntaH to be used, =
only when the one who {rIntaH}s is<br class=3D"">someone sentient ?<br =
class=3D""><br class=3D"">~ changan qIj<br =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" =
class=3D"">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org<br =
class=3D""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
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