[112022] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] new info on body movements
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Fri Mar 1 16:29:04 2019
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In-Reply-To: <CA+7zAmP87_QWzepSORKQs+WF9bfo=PpD8LQpdA2Z=3a95zskSQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2019 22:20:29 +0100
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> schrieb am Fr., 1. M=C3=A4rz 2019, 10:56:
>
> I had a Q&A with Marc Okrand/Maltz on some gymnastics and martial arts
> terminology. I'll post the transcript after I've had a chance to look it
> over for typos and maybe get some clarifications. In the meantime, here's=
a
> summary of the new info which was revealed:
>
> {ron} v. roll, be rolling [generalises {ron} "roll (aircraft wings tilt,
> one up, one down)"; we already knew this applied to more than aircraft
> because it was used for dice in Klingon Monopoly]
> {Hay} v. somersault [a controlled roll, whereas {ron} applied to a person
> would mean they were rolling haphazardly]
> {tetlh} v. roll (down a hill like a log)
> {Dav} v. sidestep, sway [generalises {Dav} "sway (aircraft moves to the
> side without yawing)"]
> {ler} v. wobble
> {Der} v. veer (to the left or right while traveling or moving)
> [generalises {Der} "yaw (aircraft nose points left or right)"]
> {jIm} v. shrug [generalises {jIm} "heave (aircraft rising or falling
> without pitching)"]
> {lID} v. travel or move a specified or measurable distance or trajectory
> [used with verbs of movement which don't take distance or trajectory as
> their object]
> {tonSaw'} is used to name martial arts poses or stances; {much} is used
> for striking a pose, and takes the named stance as the object ({tonSaw'}
> may be dropped from the name if it's clear)
>
Full transcript follows. Fixed a few typos. In one place he wrote "rod" and
followed by asking if pendulum was the right term, which it was, so I put
it where he was referring to it in brackets.
--- begin Q&A ---
[De'vID]> Can {ron} be used for people, such as in martial arts or
gymnastics?
Yes=E2=80=A6 IF it means that the person is rolling haphazardly.
If the person is doing a somersault (rolling forwards or backwards in a
reasonably controlled manner), the verb is {Hay}.
If the person is rolling down a hill as if he/she were a log, the verb is
{tetlh} (related to the noun meaning "scroll," though it's not used for
scrolls=E2=80=A6 unless a scroll is rolling down a hill).
[De'vID]> What about {Dav} "sway", {Der} "yaw", {jer} "surge", and {jIm}
"heave"? Can these be applied to people or animals, or inanimate objects
(e.g., something sways in the wind)?
{Dav} can be used if it's referring to movement by the whole body (or whole
thing, if it's an inanimate object) to the left or right. It's not used if
the person's feet stay put but his/her upper body leans left and/or right
(like the back-and-forth motion of the rod [inverted pendulum] of a
metronome); for that kind of motion, the verb is {ler}, which can also be
translated "wobble."
{Der} can be used for people (and other things) meaning something like
"veer to the left or right while traveling or moving."
Maltz didn't recall ever hearing {jer} used for anything other than
aircraft (or other vehicles), but he said he'd have to think about this
some more.
{jIm}, when applied to people, is generally used for "shrug" (like what
many Terrans do with their shoulders to indicate "I don't know"). You
could say {jIm SuvwI' volchaHDu'} "the warrior's shoulders shrug," but most
commonly {volchaH(Du')} is left out (and you'd just say {jIm SuvwI'} "the
warrior shrugs"). You could also say {volchaHDu'Daj jImmoH SuvwI'} "the
warrior shrugs his/her shoulders}. (If the context is clear, you can leave
out {-Du'} and/or {-Daj}.)
[De'vID]> Can any of these verbs take an object, such as an angle or a
distance (as appropriate to the verb)?
No. To indicate how far the motion was (how far the person/object moved),
make use of the verb {lID}, meaning something like "travel or move a
specified or measurable distance or trajectory." The object of {lID} is the
distance moved or range of motion. So you could say {ron SuvwI'; chorgh
'uj(mey) lID} "the warrior rolled (haphazardly) for eight ujes" (literally,
"the warrior rolled; he/she traveled/moved/traversed eight ujes"). It could
also be the other way around: {chorgh 'uj(mey) lID SuvwI'; ron} "the
warrior rolled (haphazardly) for eight ujes" (literally, "the warrior
traveled/moved/traversed eight ujes; he/she rolled"). Or {ron muD Duj;
javmaH lawrI'(mey) lID} "the airplane rolled 60=C2=BA." (The semicolons he=
re
don't matter. You could also use a period, since, really, they're pairs of
sentences.)
[De'vID]> Can {lol} (applied to people) take the name of a martial arts
stance? For example, can one give a command such as {mIl'oD lol yIlol}
"strike a sabre bear pose (martial arts stance)" ({lol} is a noun meaning a
martial arts stance)? If not, how would one give the command to strike a
specific named martial arts pose?
The noun {lol} refers to a specific martial arts stance. It's not a general
term for "stance" (so you don't say {mIl'oD lol} "sabre bear pose").
{tonSaw'} "fighting technique," however, is used as a general term for
"stance" when talking about Mok'bara poses and the like, so you could say
{mIl'oD tonSaw'} "sabre bear stance." The verb {lol} means "be in a
stance"; it doesn't take an object. To command someone to strike a
specific pose (typically a martial arts pose or stance), use the verb
{much}, usually glossed as "present, perform," with the specific pose as
the object: {mIl'oD tonSaw' yImuch} "strike the sabre bear pose!" If the
context is clear =E2=80=94 that is, if {mIl'oD} is known to mean the name o=
f a pose
-- then you can leave {tonSaw'} out and just say {mIl'oD yImuch} "strike
the sabre bear (pose)!" (This is like in English when talking about yoga
poses: "Do the downward facing dog!") If you were performing in a play and
your character was a sabre bear, the director might also say {mIl'oD
yImuch}, meaning something like "perform/present the sabre bear (role)!"
--- end Q&A ---
--=20
De'vID
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">De'vID <<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.c=
om" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com=
</a>> schrieb am Fr., 1. M=C3=A4rz 2019, 10:56:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>I had a Q&A with Marc O=
krand/Maltz on some gymnastics and martial arts terminology. I'll post =
the transcript after I've had a chance to look it over for typos and ma=
ybe get some clarifications. In the meantime, here's a summary of the n=
ew info which was revealed:<div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">{=
ron} v. roll, be rolling [generalises {ron} "roll (aircraft wings tilt=
, one up, one down)"; we already knew this applied to more than aircra=
ft because it was used for dice in Klingon Monopoly]</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote">{Hay} v. somersault [a controlled roll, whereas {ron} applied to =
a person would mean they were rolling haphazardly]</div><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">{tetlh} v. roll (down a hill like a log)</div><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">{Dav} v. sidestep, sway [generalises {Dav} "sway (aircraft moves=
to the side without yawing)"]</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">{ler} v=
. wobble</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">{Der} v. veer (to the left or righ=
t while traveling or moving) [generalises {Der} "yaw (aircraft nose po=
ints left or right)"]</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">{jIm} v. shrug [=
generalises {jIm} "heave (aircraft rising or falling without pitching)=
"]</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">{lID} v.=C2=A0travel or move a spec=
ified or measurable distance or trajectory [used with verbs of movement whi=
ch don't take distance or trajectory as their object]</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">{tonSaw'} is used to name martial arts poses or stance=
s; {much} is used for striking a pose, and takes the named stance as the ob=
ject ({tonSaw'} may be dropped from the name if it's clear)</div><d=
iv></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><div style=3D"font-family:sans-serif" class=3D"m_570328566=
7938796225elided-text" dir=3D"auto"><br>Full transcript follows. Fixed a fe=
w typos. In one place he wrote "rod" and followed by asking if pe=
ndulum was the right term, which it was, so I put it where he was referring=
to it in brackets.</div><div style=3D"font-family:sans-serif" class=3D"m_5=
703285667938796225elided-text" dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif" class=3D"m_5703285667938796225elided-text" dir=3D"auto">--=
- begin Q&A ---<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:sans-serif" class=3D=
"m_5703285667938796225elided-text" dir=3D"auto">[De'vID]> Can {ron} =
be used for people, such as in martial arts or gymnastics?<br><br>Yes=E2=80=
=A6 IF it means that the person is rolling haphazardly.<br><br>If the perso=
n is doing a somersault (rolling forwards or backwards in a reasonably cont=
rolled manner), the verb is {Hay}.<br><br>If the person is rolling down a h=
ill as if he/she were a log, the verb is {tetlh} (related to the noun meani=
ng "scroll," though it's not used for scrolls=E2=80=A6 unless=
a scroll is rolling down a hill).<br><br><br>[De'vID]>=C2=A0What ab=
out {Dav} "sway", {Der} "yaw", {jer} "surge",=
and {jIm} "heave"? Can these be applied to people or animals, or=
inanimate objects (e.g., something sways in the wind)?<br><br>{Dav} can be=
used if it's referring to movement by the whole body (or whole thing, =
if it's an inanimate object) to the left or right.=C2=A0 It's not u=
sed if the person's feet stay put but his/her upper body leans left and=
/or right (like the back-and-forth motion of the rod [inverted pendulum] of=
a metronome); for that kind of motion, the verb is {ler}, which can also b=
e translated "wobble."<br><br>{Der} can be used for people (and o=
ther things) meaning something like "veer to the left or right while t=
raveling or moving."<br><br>Maltz didn't recall ever hearing {jer}=
used for anything other than aircraft (or other vehicles), but he said he&=
#39;d have to think about this some more.<br><br>{jIm}, when applied to peo=
ple, is generally used for "shrug" (like what many Terrans do wit=
h their shoulders to indicate "I don't know").=C2=A0 You coul=
d say {jIm SuvwI' volchaHDu'} "the warrior's shoulders shr=
ug," but most commonly {volchaH(Du')} is left out (and you'd j=
ust say {jIm SuvwI'} "the warrior shrugs"). You could also sa=
y {volchaHDu'Daj jImmoH SuvwI'} "the warrior shrugs his/her sh=
oulders}.=C2=A0 (If the context is clear, you can leave out {-Du'} and/=
or {-Daj}.)<br><br><br>[De'vID]> Can any of these verbs take an obje=
ct, such as an angle or a distance (as appropriate to the verb)?<br><br>No.=
To indicate how far the motion was (how far the person/object moved), make=
use of the verb {lID}, meaning something like "travel or move a speci=
fied or measurable distance or trajectory." The object of {lID} is the=
distance moved or range of motion. So you could say {ron SuvwI'; chorg=
h 'uj(mey) lID} "the warrior rolled (haphazardly) for eight ujes&q=
uot; (literally, "the warrior rolled; he/she traveled/moved/traversed =
eight ujes"). It could also be the other way around: {chorgh 'uj(m=
ey) lID SuvwI'; ron} "the warrior rolled (haphazardly) for eight u=
jes" (literally, "the warrior traveled/moved/traversed eight ujes=
; he/she rolled").=C2=A0 Or {ron muD Duj; javmaH lawrI'(mey) lID} =
"the airplane rolled 60=C2=BA."=C2=A0 (The semicolons here don=
9;t matter. You could also use a period, since, really, they're pairs o=
f sentences.)<br><br><br>[De'vID]>=C2=A0Can {lol} (applied to people=
) take the name of a martial arts stance? For example, can one give a comma=
nd such as {mIl'oD lol yIlol} "strike a sabre bear pose (martial a=
rts stance)" ({lol} is a noun meaning a martial arts stance)? If not, =
how would one give the command to strike a specific named martial arts pose=
?<br><br>The noun {lol} refers to a specific martial arts stance. It's =
not a general term for "stance" (so you don't say {mIl'oD=
lol} "sabre bear pose"). {tonSaw'} "fighting technique,=
" however, is used as a general term for "stance" when talki=
ng about Mok'bara poses and the like, so you could say {mIl'oD tonS=
aw'} "sabre bear stance." The verb {lol} means "be in a =
stance"; it doesn't take an object.=C2=A0 To command someone to st=
rike a specific pose (typically a martial arts pose or stance), use the ver=
b {much}, usually glossed as "present, perform," with the specifi=
c pose as the object: {mIl'oD tonSaw' yImuch} "strike the sabr=
e bear pose!"=C2=A0 If the context is clear =E2=80=94 that is, if {mIl=
'oD} is known to mean the name of a pose -- then you can leave {tonSaw&=
#39;} out and just say {mIl'oD yImuch} "strike the sabre bear (pos=
e)!" (This is like in English when talking about yoga poses: "Do =
the downward facing dog!")=C2=A0 If you were performing in a play and =
your character was a sabre bear, the director might also say {mIl'oD yI=
much}, meaning something like "perform/present the sabre bear (role)!&=
quot;<br>--- end Q&A ---</div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">--=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">De'vID</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div></div>
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