[111962] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Using -ta' during -taHvIS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Tue Feb 26 09:53:35 2019
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2019 09:53:31 -0500
In-Reply-To: <1C1F6BE0-26EB-44BA-BE6F-B91BA44CD1C5@dadap.net>
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On 2/26/2019 9:31 AM, Daniel Dadap wrote:
>> On Feb 26, 2019, at 08:20, Daniel Dadap<daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
>>
>> {qama'pu' jonta' neH} gave us not only Clipped Klingon, {-pu'} as a plural marker for beings capable of speech, {-ta'} as an aspect marker for completed intentional actions, {neH} as a verb, and the special rule that {neH} doesn’t use the pronoun {'e'} when taking a sentence as its object, but*also* the rule forbidding aspect markers on a verb that takes a sentence as its object
> I forgot to include “the meaning of the verb {ma'}” to this already very long list. I imagine that {ma'} was originally meant to mean something like {ja'} does now, and wonder whether we wouldn’t have the similarity between {jatlh}, {ja'}, {jat}, and {jach} if he weren’t forced to change {ma'} to mean something else, to make the backfit less obvious.
*-pu'* was originally a past-tense marker, and *ma'* meant what *ja'*
means now. *ma'* means /accommodate/ because Okrand had to accommodate
the script-change with all this new stuff. Klingon switched to aspect
instead of tense because it made no sense to have past tense on the new
verb *jon, *no matter what the suffix.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/26/2019 9:31 AM, Daniel Dadap
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1C1F6BE0-26EB-44BA-BE6F-B91BA44CD1C5@dadap.net">
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">On Feb 26, 2019, at 08:20, Daniel Dadap <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:daniel@dadap.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><daniel@dadap.net></a> wrote:
{qama'pu' jonta' neH} gave us not only Clipped Klingon, {-pu'} as a plural marker for beings capable of speech, {-ta'} as an aspect marker for completed intentional actions, {neH} as a verb, and the special rule that {neH} doesn’t use the pronoun {'e'} when taking a sentence as its object, but <b class="moz-txt-star"><span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span>also<span class="moz-txt-tag">*</span></b> the rule forbidding aspect markers on a verb that takes a sentence as its object
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I forgot to include “the meaning of the verb {ma'}” to this already very long list. I imagine that {ma'} was originally meant to mean something like {ja'} does now, and wonder whether we wouldn’t have the similarity between {jatlh}, {ja'}, {jat}, and {jach} if he weren’t forced to change {ma'} to mean something else, to make the backfit less obvious.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p><b>-pu'</b> was originally a past-tense marker, and <b>ma'</b>
meant what <b>ja'</b> means now. <b>ma'</b> means <i>accommodate</i>
because Okrand had to accommodate the script-change with all this
new stuff. Klingon switched to aspect instead of tense because it
made no sense to have past tense on the new verb <b>jon, </b>no
matter what the suffix.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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