[111943] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] negating adverbials
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniel Dadap)
Mon Feb 25 14:43:00 2019
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From: Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2019 13:42:53 -0600
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> On Feb 25, 2019, at 08:34, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Can you repeat the intended meaning, for which
> you would like to hear suggestions ?
{reH qaSbe'}
Intended meaning - =E2=80=9Cit didn=E2=80=99t always happen=E2=80=9D
{tlhoy nI'be' HaSta tavam 'e' vItul}
Intended meaning - =E2=80=9CI hope this visual record isn=E2=80=99t too long=
=E2=80=9D
> On Feb 25, 2019, at 13:04, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
>=20
> You are working really hard to avoid using the adverbial word {rut}...
Not at all. My recast with {pIj}, which I used mere seconds after the origin=
al gaffe with {reH}, conveys the meaning I intended *for this particular utt=
erance* better than {rut}, but I have no problems with {rut}. The problem is=
that I had already said {reH} even though I didn=E2=80=99t actually mean it=
. So to backtrack and explain that I didn=E2=80=99t actually mean {reH}, in t=
he moment I said {reH qaSbe'}, then issued a corrected sentence using {pIj} i=
nstead. I don=E2=80=99t advocate saying {reH qaSbe'} in general; it=E2=80=99=
s just what I happened to say, and I=E2=80=99m aware that it stands on shaky=
ground.
If I had written down what I was going to say before I said it, I certainly w=
ouldn=E2=80=99t have said {reH} to begin with, so the problem wouldn=E2=80=99=
t be there at all. This isn=E2=80=99t about me not wanting to use a perfectl=
y good word that exists; it=E2=80=99s about me making an error during extemp=
oraneous speech, realizing the error immediately, but not being sure how bes=
t to correct it during the same instant of extemporaneous speech, and then b=
eing curious after the fact about how to negate adverbs more generally. If y=
ou watch the video you=E2=80=99ll hear me groan and then hem and haw for a w=
hile right after I say {reH}. (I hem and haw a lot during the video, which w=
ould have happened less, or not at all, if I had done any sort of preparatio=
n for it whatsoever, but I didn=E2=80=99t want to spend more than ten minute=
s making it.)
Also, I still haven=E2=80=99t thought of a satisfactory solution to the seco=
nd sentence which I ended up rendering as {tlhoy nI'be' HaSta tavam 'e' vItu=
l}. Maybe since what I=E2=80=99m really hoping is that it isn=E2=80=99t perc=
eived as too long, {tlhoy nI' HaSta tavam 'e' boHarbe' 'e' vItul} would have=
been the way to go.=
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On Feb 25, 2019, at 08:34, may=
qel qunen'oS <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br><br></span></font></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><font color=3D"#000000"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); backg=
round-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Can you repeat the intended meaning, f=
or which<br>you would like to hear suggestions ?</span></font></div></blockq=
uote><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">{reH qaSbe'}</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Intended m=
eaning - =E2=80=9Cit didn=E2=80=99t always happen=E2=80=9D</div><div dir=3D"=
ltr">{tlhoy nI'be' HaSta tavam 'e' vItul}</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Intended mea=
ning - =E2=80=9CI hope this visual record isn=E2=80=99t too long=E2=80=9D</d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Feb 25, 2019, at 13:04, Wi=
ll Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:willmartin2@mac.com">willmartin2@mac.com</a>=
> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">You are w=
orking really hard to avoid using the adverbial word {rut}...</div></blockqu=
ote><br><div>Not at all. My recast with {pIj}, which I used mere seconds aft=
er the original gaffe with {reH}, conveys the meaning I intended *for this p=
articular utterance* better than {rut}, but I have no problems with {rut}. T=
he problem is that I had already said {reH} even though I didn=E2=80=99t act=
ually mean it. So to backtrack and explain that I didn=E2=80=99t actually me=
an {reH}, in the moment I said {reH qaSbe'}, then issued a corrected sentenc=
e using {pIj} instead. I don=E2=80=99t advocate saying {reH qaSbe'} in gener=
al; it=E2=80=99s just what I happened to say, and I=E2=80=99m aware that it s=
tands on shaky ground.</div><div><br></div><div>If I had written down what I=
was going to say before I said it, I certainly wouldn=E2=80=99t have said {=
reH} to begin with, so the problem wouldn=E2=80=99t be there at all. This is=
n=E2=80=99t about me not wanting to use a perfectly good word that exists; i=
t=E2=80=99s about me making an error during extemporaneous speech, realizing=
the error immediately, but not being sure how best to correct it during the=
same instant of extemporaneous speech, and then being curious after the fac=
t about how to negate adverbs more generally. If you watch the video you=E2=80=
=99ll hear me groan and then hem and haw for a while right after I say {reH}=
. (I hem and haw a lot during the video, which would have happened less, or n=
ot at all, if I had done any sort of preparation for it whatsoever, but I di=
dn=E2=80=99t want to spend more than ten minutes making it.)</div><div><br><=
/div><div>Also, I still haven=E2=80=99t thought of a satisfactory solution t=
o the second sentence which I ended up rendering as {tlhoy nI'be' HaSta tava=
m 'e' vItul}. Maybe since what I=E2=80=99m really hoping is that it isn=E2=80=
=99t perceived as too long, {tlhoy nI' HaSta tavam 'e' boHarbe' 'e' vItul} w=
ould have been the way to go.</div></body></html>=
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