[111690] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] using {-Daq} metaphorically
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Oct 23 05:22:23 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 11:08:55 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cLcC-B=5MSb7RdL_5RVeUi6M058-yHqsvRt0OSb-GXQCQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/22/2017 10:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> We know we can say:
>
> {bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'}
> the sword is in the ocean
>
> There is no real ocean, but we use the {-Daq} on the {bIQ'a'} neverthless.
>
> Likewise, if we wrote:
>
> {'Internet DaqDaq De' law' tu'lu'}
> at the location of the internet, there's a lot of information
>
> Would the above be acceptable ?
*bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'* is not a metaphor; it is an idiom. A
metaphor is an expression that describes one thing as a different thing;
an idiom is an expression that means something other than what it
literally says. When a Klingon says *bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e',* he is
not saying that anything is a sword or ocean; he is merely referencing a
story about Kahless to mean /something has ended./
There is no reason why you can't use *-Daq* in a metaphor. The limits on
*-Daq* are that it must describe a spatial relationship. If a metaphor
includes a spatial relationship, then *-Daq* is appropriate. If you're
/standing on the shoulders of giants,/ that's a metaphor that includes
an actual spatial relationship, so go ahead and say *tInqu'wI'
volchaHDaq QamtaH.*
So what about /on the Internet?/ This gets a little more complicated,
because so much of our computer terminology is built out of metaphors
that we get so used to they cease to be mere metaphors and become the
normal jargon. We casually toss out metaphors like /window, file, trash,
clipboard, paste, open, /and /desktop/ to the point that we don't even
realize anymore that they are metaphors. We intuitively click on the
image of a floppy disk to save a file even though we haven't used floppy
disks to save files for years and years.
So when considering whether /on the Internet/ is a metaphor, keep in
mind that computer jargon is built on metaphor, but may not be metaphor
anymore. We think of the Internet as a "place" with "sites" and "pages"
and "forums" that we "go to," so why couldn't something be "in" or "on"
the Internet? It's in keeping with the metaphor. So go ahead and
maintain that metaphor, with the understanding that we're biased by our
jargon for these things. Since the Internet is a specifically Human
invention, Klingons talking about it will probably just adopt our
metaphor—unless they have or had something of their own that's
comparable. But since their word for Internet is *'Internet,* I find
that unlikely.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/22/2017 10:45 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLcC-B=5MSb7RdL_5RVeUi6M058-yHqsvRt0OSb-GXQCQ@mail.gmail.com">We
know we can say:
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">{bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'}
<div dir="auto">the sword is in the ocean</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">There is no real ocean, but we use the {-Daq} on
the {bIQ'a'} neverthless.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Likewise, if we wrote:</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">{'Internet DaqDaq De' law' tu'lu'}</div>
<div dir="auto">at the location of the internet, there's a lot
of information</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Would the above be acceptable ?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><b>bIQ'a'Daq 'oHtaH 'etlh'e'</b> is not a metaphor; it is an
idiom. A metaphor is an expression that describes one thing as a
different thing; an idiom is an expression that means something
other than what it literally says. When a Klingon says <b>bIQ'a'Daq
'oHtaH 'etlh'e',</b> he is not saying that anything is a sword
or ocean; he is merely referencing a story about Kahless to mean <i>something
has ended.</i></p>
<p>There is no reason why you can't use <b>-Daq</b> in a metaphor.
The limits on <b>-Daq</b> are that it must describe a spatial
relationship. If a metaphor includes a spatial relationship, then
<b>-Daq</b> is appropriate. If you're <i>standing on the
shoulders of giants,</i> that's a metaphor that includes an
actual spatial relationship, so go ahead and say <b>tInqu'wI'
volchaHDaq QamtaH.</b></p>
<p>So what about <i>on the Internet?</i> This gets a little more
complicated, because so much of our computer terminology is built
out of metaphors that we get so used to they cease to be mere
metaphors and become the normal jargon. We casually toss out
metaphors like <i>window, file, trash, clipboard, paste, open, </i>and
<i>desktop</i> to the point that we don't even realize anymore
that they are metaphors. We intuitively click on the image of a
floppy disk to save a file even though we haven't used floppy
disks to save files for years and years.</p>
<p>So when considering whether <i>on the Internet</i> is a
metaphor, keep in mind that computer jargon is built on metaphor,
but may not be metaphor anymore. We think of the Internet as a
"place" with "sites" and "pages" and "forums" that we "go to," so
why couldn't something be "in" or "on" the Internet? It's in
keeping with the metaphor. So go ahead and maintain that metaphor,
with the understanding that we're biased by our jargon for these
things. Since the Internet is a specifically Human invention,
Klingons talking about it will probably just adopt our
metaphor—unless they have or had something of their own that's
comparable. But since their word for Internet is <b>'Internet,</b>
I find that unlikely.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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