[111587] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] One more day
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Fri Oct 13 12:51:10 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+Ow=hQDqZ2+oAxs0nDMu-tur3E6W8_tXm5RQ=NjwZxyQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:44:46 +0200
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============3721243515000236928==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043ee094818d1a055b35b316"
--f403043ee094818d1a055b35b316
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2017-10-10 20:33 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>:
> SuStel:
> > If someone were to write *Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv* for *I *
> *> measure the ship's deceleration*
>
> *I can'understand this; all I read is "I measure the ship's great speed,
> speed, lesser speed"*
>
> *mayqel q*
>
>
This is also the only thing I am grasping there. It would not make sense to
me. It sounds either like a mere list, or like a NNN construction meaning
"I measure the lesser speed of the speed of the greater speed of the ship."
Neither of which makes sense. Maybe that ship has only 3 speed modes, slow
pace, middle pace, and full speed, and I could measure what they are (e.g.
half impulse, full impulse, and warp 1).
Interpreting something like "deceleration" into seems like a big stretch.
Like linguistic fan fiction.
- Andr=C3=A9
> On Oct 10, 2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
>> On 10/10/2017 12:51 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:
>>
>> I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don't express what I
>>> thought of the nouns at the time; they tell what I think of them when I=
say
>>> the sentence.
>>>
>> It's interesting that you don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I
>> thought it was a good example of a spectrum of something like "increasin=
g
>> belief on my part that this thing can or should be described by this nou=
n",
>> from *-qoq* ("obviously not such a thing") to *-na'* ("definitely such a
>> thing"). That's a good point about how they apply at the time of speakin=
g,
>> though. (At first I was going to argue that in the right context they co=
uld
>> be taken to mean "what I thought of them at the time", like if they were
>> contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence, but I thin=
k
>> that's mostly just because I really liked that example and want to salva=
ge
>> it somehow.)
>>
>> Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the
>> sentence is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it. We've
>> seen hints of similar in the verb qualification suffixes. But we haven't
>> actually seen anything like this in nouns so far as I know, so no point
>> trying to find a way to make it so.
>>
>> You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes and
>> *-ghach:* *SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach* for something like *fig=
ht
>> from start to finish.* There's an unmistakable sequence here, but it
>> doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. And with this one there's actually
>> little point to nominalizing it; just say *SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.*
>> Interpret it with full stops after each word if you must.
>>
>> --
>> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
--f403043ee094818d1a055b35b316
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
2017-10-10 20:33 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"=
mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></span=
>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-=
family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">SuStel:</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span=
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> If someone were t=
o write=C2=A0</span><b style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">=
Duj Do'a' Do DoHom vIjuv</b><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;f=
ont-size:13.696px">=C2=A0for=C2=A0</span><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif=
;font-size:13.696px">I=C2=A0</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> measure the ship's deceleratio=
n</i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:1=
3.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif=
;font-size:13.696px">I can'understand this; all I read is "I measu=
re the ship's great speed, speed, lesser speed"</i></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></=
div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13=
.696px"><i>mayqel q</i></span></font></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is also the only thing I a=
m grasping there. It would not make sense to me. It sounds either like a me=
re list, or like a NNN construction meaning "I measure the lesser spee=
d of the speed of the greater speed of the ship." Neither of which mak=
es sense. Maybe that ship has only 3 speed modes, slow pace, middle pace, a=
nd full speed, and I could measure what they are (e.g. half impulse, full i=
mpulse, and warp 1).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Interpreting something li=
ke "deceleration" into seems like a big stretch. Like linguistic =
fan fiction.</div><div><br></div><div>- Andr=C3=A9<br></div><div><br></div>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 10, 2017 8:09 PM, "SuStel" <=
<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.n=
ame</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907094495585moz-cite-pref=
ix">On 10/10/2017 12:51 PM, nIqolay Q
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<p>I don't see these as a spectrum, and these suffixes don=
9;t
express what I thought of the nouns at the time; they tell
what I think of them when I say the sentence. <br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">It's interesting that y=
ou
don't see these suffixes as a spectrum. I thought it was a good
example of a spectrum of something like "increasing belief on =
my
part that this thing can or should be described by this noun",
from <b>-qoq</b> ("obviously not such a thing") to <b>-na=
'</b>
("definitely such a thing"). That's a good point abou=
t how they
apply at the time of speaking, though. (At first I was going to
argue that in the right context they could be taken to mean
"what I thought of them at the time", like if they were
contrasted with each other in some kind of temporal sequence,
but I think that's mostly just because I really liked that
example and want to salvage it somehow.)</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Noun qualification suffixes applying to what a participant in the
sentence is not a complete impossibility, though I don't like it.
We've seen hints of similar in the verb qualification suffixes.
But we haven't actually seen anything like this in nouns so far a=
s
I know, so no point trying to find a way to make it so.</p>
<p>You might construct a similar argument based on aspect suffixes
and <b>-ghach:</b> <b>SuvchoHghach SuvtaHghach Suvpu'ghach</b>
for something like <i>fight from start to finish.</i> There's an
unmistakable sequence here, but it doesn't exactly roll off the
tongue. And with this one there's actually little point to
nominalizing it; just say <b>SuvchoH SuvtaH Suvpu'.</b> Interpret
it with full stops after each word if you must.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"=
><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
</font></span></p><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<pre class=3D"m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907094495585moz-signature=
" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-7885599997635718097m_-5777237907094495585moz-txt-link-freete=
xt" href=3D"http://trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a=
></pre>
</font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhIngan-Ho=
l@lists.kli.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></font></span></blockquote></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
--f403043ee094818d1a055b35b316--
--===============3721243515000236928==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============3721243515000236928==--
