[111405] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] qepHom grammar questions
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Fri Oct 6 03:11:08 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 13:41:50 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CALPi+eRCwdLqtgKOFneyQJBaFdiy7Smji_fx8u=0O3bn_Jsv2g@mail.gmail.com>
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On 10/4/2017 12:33 PM, qurgh lungqIj wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Lawrence M. Schoen
> <klingonguy@gmail.com <mailto:klingonguy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:46 AM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net
> <mailto:qurgh@wizage.net>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Lawrence M. Schoen
> <klingonguy@gmail.com <mailto:klingonguy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> This makes me wonder how you'd respond to adding the
> suffix after the ordinal?
>
> Thus, /my third ship/ - *Duj wejDIchwIj*
>
>
> You don't posses the "third" though, you posses the ship.
>
> DujwIj wejDIch - Out of the collection of ships that are mine,
> the third one is the topic
>
>
> You make a compelling argument. And I confess I just popped into
> the middle of this thread so I'll yield to your assertion that
> "the third one is the topic"
>
> And yet, as has been pointed out, a number (in this case, an
> ordinal number) is a noun. So I have to disagree with your point
> that you "don't posses [sic] the "third" though, you posses [sic]
> the ship."
>
> Duj wejDIchwIj - there are many ships, but third one is mine.
>
>
> To me {wejDIch} isn't a thing that can be owned by someone, it's
> simply a way to count things in a list. Putting a possessive on it
> just seems strange to my mind.
I don't happen to agree with *Duj wejDIchwIj,* but it's worth getting
clarification.
I would interpret *Duj wejDIchwIj* not as mine being the third ship out
of many ships, but everybody has many ships, and let's talk about MY
third one, not YOUR third one.
A number is a *chuv,* not a noun, but it gets treated grammatically as a
noun. But modifying nouns with numbers does not follow the usual
noun-noun construction rules. Neither do numbers necessarily act like
adjectival verbs. Sometimes numbers are used as adverbials. Numbers act
like numbers, whatever that means. The unclear delineation is the reason
to ask for more information.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/4/2017 12:33 PM, qurgh lungqIj
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALPi+eRCwdLqtgKOFneyQJBaFdiy7Smji_fx8u=0O3bn_Jsv2g@mail.gmail.com">On
Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Lawrence M. Schoen <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:klingonguy@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">klingonguy@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Wed, Oct 4, 2017
at 11:46 AM, qurgh lungqIj <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:qurgh@wizage.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">qurgh@wizage.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Wed, Oct 4, 2017
at 11:41 AM, Lawrence M. Schoen <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:klingonguy@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">klingonguy@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>This makes me wonder how you'd
respond to adding the suffix after
the ordinal?<br>
<br>
Thus, <i>my third ship</i> - <b>Duj
wejDIchwIj</b> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span>
<div><br>
You don't posses the "third" though, you
posses the ship.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>DujwIj wejDIch - Out of the collection of
ships that are mine, the third one is the
topic</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div>You make a compelling argument. And I confess I just
popped into the middle of this thread so I'll yield to
your assertion that "the third one is the topic"<br>
<br>
And yet, as has been pointed out, a number (in this
case, an ordinal number) is a noun. So I have to
disagree with your point that you "don't posses [sic]
the "third" though, you posses [sic] the ship."<br>
<br>
Duj wejDIchwIj - there are many ships, but third one is
mine.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
To me {wejDIch} isn't a thing that can be owned by someone, it's
simply a way to count things in a list. Putting a possessive on
it just seems strange to my mind.</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't happen to agree with <b>Duj wejDIchwIj,</b> but it's
worth getting clarification.</p>
<p>I would interpret <b>Duj wejDIchwIj</b> not as mine being the
third ship out of many ships, but everybody has many ships, and
let's talk about MY third one, not YOUR third one.</p>
<p>A number is a <b>chuv,</b> not a noun, but it gets treated
grammatically as a noun. But modifying nouns with numbers does not
follow the usual noun-noun construction rules. Neither do numbers
necessarily act like adjectival verbs. Sometimes numbers are used
as adverbials. Numbers act like numbers, whatever that means. The
unclear delineation is the reason to ask for more information.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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