[111366] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Is Star Trek: Discovery a new canon category?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Tue Oct 3 04:50:59 2017
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From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2017 12:25:14 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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De'vID:
> If you joined the Klingon language community early on, and
> you were lucky enough to be able to attend the qep'a' and
> converse with other speakers, subscribe to HolQeD, and so
> on, you may not appreciate how difficult it is for a beginner
> now to pick up all of the vocabulary or develop an ear for
> spoken Klingon.
De'vID is right, and I agree 100%. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't have
learned klingon if it wasn't for boQwI'.
And it is my belief, that no app has contributed more to the klingon
beginner, than boQwI'.
mayqel q
On Oct 2, 2017 11:35, "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11 August 2017 at 02:46, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
>
>> How would you answer if YOU were the one providing Klingon translations
>> for the lines in Discovery scripts?
>>
>
> Well, now that it's been made public that you're Qov's backup translator
> and you provided some of the lines, that puts your question in a different
> context. :-)
>
> On 11 August 2017 at 15:22, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of people who have opted in to provide app usage statistics, there are
>> currently over 5000 30-day-active users (meaning people who have
>> actually used the app within the last 30 days), and over 64000 total
>> installs. Probably most of these people are casual fans, but at least
>> some are beginner or intermediate Klingon learners. But in any case,
>> there are three orders of magnitude more users of {boQwI'} than there
>> are Klingonists who use it.
>>
>
> Just to give an update on this. There was a 94% increase in downloads of
> {boQwI'} in the past 7-day period compared to the week before, and a 41%
> increase for the 30-day period compared to the previous one.
>
> Something which I didn't expect was that the episodes have Klingon
> subtitles, thanks to Lieven. (Only on Netflix, though, so they're not
> available in the US or Canada, unfortunately). So instead of searching for
> things in English, users have actually been typing the subtitles *in
> Klingon* into {boQwI'} to break down their constituent parts.
>
> There was another use case which I hadn't anticipated: people are using
> {boQwI'} to *listen to* the text-to-speech engine repeat the lines spoken
> on the show. Many people apparently can't understand the spoken Klingon in
> the show even with Klingon subtitles, so they're listening to the
> TTS-generated version for comparison. (The stats for the TTS downloads are
> 107% over the last 7-day period, and 74% over the last 30-day.) In other
> words, the TTS engine is being used as a tool for people to learn to
> understand spoken Klingon.
>
> On 12 August 2017 at 00:58, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
>
>> I guess I don't get the point of putting it in boQwI'. If it is proper
>> Okrandian Klingon, it will be things that are already in the app. If it is
>> not, then it shouldn't be included as an example.
>
>
> If a sentence is included in {boQwI'}, the entry can be annotated to
> provide a breakdown of its components and grammar. If a sentence isn't
> included, {boQwI'} will try to analyse it, but it doesn't understand things
> like homophones (e.g., it will provide both "be quiet" and "exchange,
> substitute" in its analysis for {yItamchoH!}). Another wrinkle is that the
> TTS will only speak sentences which are included in the database. It can
> still speak the individual parts of any sentence which isn't included, but
> it just means the user has to listen to each part separately, so it won't
> flow smoothly.
>
> I completely understand and agree with the need to keep Okrandian canon
> separate from stuff produced by other people. When I originally started
> {boQwI'}, it was a canon database. But the user base has other ideas. If
> you joined the Klingon language community early on, and you were lucky
> enough to be able to attend the qep'a' and converse with other speakers,
> subscribe to HolQeD, and so on, you may not appreciate how difficult it is
> for a beginner now to pick up all of the vocabulary or develop an ear for
> spoken Klingon. There are thousands of people out there who are interested
> enough in the spoken Klingon on Discovery to the degree that they're trying
> to convert what they hear into written Klingon so they can break down the
> parts and understand them, and I want to make their entry into fully
> learning Klingon as easy as possible. (I don't want to annoy beginners with
> notes about canon they won't understand, but I also don't want to annoy
> experts by mixing canon and non-canon material, so the DSC stuff will be
> marked, but not in a very obtrusive way.)
>
> I think there's a huge opportunity for the KLI here, to produce with CBS
> (after the season, or the series, is over) a book of annotated transcripts
> for all the Klingon language dialogue in the show, with commentary by Qov
> and yourself on word choice, grammar, etc., some comments from Marc Okrand,
> interviews with the Klingon actors and voice coach, a glossary/dictionary
> in the back collecting the vocabulary used on the show, with lots of glossy
> pictures of the cast and language experts. It can accompany the "making of"
> video segment for the Klingon language parts of the show. (I was going to
> suggest that this could be included in the book as a DVD, but nowadays I
> guess it should just be streamed online.) There's clearly a market for
> something like this.
>
> --
> De'vID
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"=
>De'vID:</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;=
font-size:13.696px">> If you joined the Klingon language community early=
on, and=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:san=
s-serif;font-size:13.696px">> you were lucky enough to be able to attend=
the qep'a' and=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"=
font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> converse with other speaker=
s, subscribe to HolQeD, and so=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span st=
yle=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> on, you may not appr=
eciate how difficult it is for a beginner=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"aut=
o"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> now to pi=
ck up all of the vocabulary or develop an ear for=C2=A0</span></div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> s=
poken Klingon.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:san=
s-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=
=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">De'vID is right, and=
I agree 100%. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't have learned klingon if =
it wasn't for boQwI'.</span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font fa=
ce=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.6=
96px">And it is my belief, that no app has contributed more to the klingon =
beginner, than boQwI'.</span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=
=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696=
px">mayqel q</span></font></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Oct 2, 2017 11:35, "De'vID" <<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>> wrote=
:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
br class=3D"m_-5633257764016121167gmail-m_-4619625836520024992gmail-Apple-i=
nterchange-newline">On 11 August 2017 at 02:46, Alan Anderson=C2=A0<span di=
r=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunch=
uy@alcaco.net</a>></span>=C2=A0<wbr>wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote"><div>How would you answer if YOU were the one providing=
Klingon translations for the lines in Discovery scripts?<br></div></div></=
div></div></blockquote><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra">Well, now that it's been made public that you're Qov=
9;s backup translator and you provided some of the lines, that puts your qu=
estion in a different context. :-)</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
class=3D"gmail_quote">On 11 August 2017 at 15:22, De'vID <span dir=3D"=
ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">de.vi=
d.jonpin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex">Of people who have opted in to provide app usage statist=
ics, there are<br>
currently over 5000 30-day-active users (meaning people who have<br>
actually used the app within the last 30 days), and over 64000 total<br>
installs. Probably most of these people are casual fans, but at least<br>
some are beginner or intermediate Klingon learners. But in any case,<br>
there are three orders of magnitude more users of {boQwI'} than there<b=
r>
are Klingonists who use it.<br></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
"><br></div>Just to give an update on this. There was a 94% increase in dow=
nloads of {boQwI'} in the past 7-day period compared to the week before=
, and a 41% increase for the 30-day period compared to the previous one.</d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Somethin=
g which I didn't expect was that the episodes have Klingon subtitles, t=
hanks to Lieven. (Only on Netflix, though, so they're not available in =
the US or Canada, unfortunately). So instead of searching for things in Eng=
lish, users have actually been typing the subtitles *in Klingon* into {boQw=
I'} to break down their constituent parts.</div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">There was another use case which I=
hadn't anticipated: people are using {boQwI'} to *listen to* the t=
ext-to-speech engine repeat the lines spoken on the show. Many people appar=
ently can't understand the spoken Klingon in the show even with Klingon=
subtitles, so they're listening to the TTS-generated version for compa=
rison. (The stats for the TTS downloads are 107% over the last 7-day period=
, and 74% over the last 30-day.) In other words, the TTS engine is being us=
ed as a tool for people to learn to understand spoken Klingon.</div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div>On 12 August =
2017 at 00:58, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh=C2=A0<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>=
></span>=C2=A0<wbr>wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">I guess I don't get the point of putting it in boQwI'. If it=
is proper Okrandian Klingon, it will be things that are already in the app=
. If it is not, then it shouldn't be included as an example.</blockquot=
e><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div>If a sentence is included in {boQwI'}, th=
e entry can be annotated to provide a breakdown of its components and gramm=
ar. If a sentence isn't included, {boQwI'} will try to analyse it, =
but it doesn't understand things like homophones (e.g., it will provide=
both "be quiet" and "exchange, substitute" in its anal=
ysis for {yItamchoH!}). Another wrinkle is that the TTS will only speak sen=
tences which are included in the database. It can still speak the individua=
l parts of any sentence which isn't included, but it just means the use=
r has to listen to each part separately, so it won't flow smoothly.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>I completely understand and agree with the need to ke=
ep Okrandian canon separate from stuff produced by other people. When I ori=
ginally started {boQwI'}, it was a canon database. But the user base ha=
s other ideas. If you joined the Klingon language community early on, and y=
ou were lucky enough to be able to attend the qep'a' and converse w=
ith other speakers, subscribe to HolQeD, and so on, you may not appreciate =
how difficult it is for a beginner now to pick up all of the vocabulary or =
develop an ear for spoken Klingon. There are thousands of people out there =
who are interested enough in the spoken Klingon on Discovery to the degree =
that they're trying to convert what they hear into written Klingon so t=
hey can break down the parts and understand them, and I want to make their =
entry into fully learning Klingon as easy as possible. (I don't want to=
annoy beginners with notes about canon they won't understand, but I al=
so don't want to annoy experts by mixing canon and non-canon material, =
so the DSC stuff will be marked, but not in a very obtrusive way.)</div><di=
v><br></div><div>I think there's a huge opportunity for the KLI here, t=
o produce with CBS (after the season, or the series, is over) a book of ann=
otated transcripts for all the Klingon language dialogue in the show, with =
commentary by Qov and yourself on word choice, grammar, etc., some comments=
from Marc Okrand, interviews with the Klingon actors and voice coach, a gl=
ossary/dictionary in the back collecting the vocabulary used on the show, w=
ith lots of glossy pictures of the cast and language experts. It can accomp=
any the "making of" video segment for the Klingon language parts =
of the show. (I was going to suggest that this could be included in the boo=
k as a DVD, but nowadays I guess it should just be streamed online.) There&=
#39;s clearly a market for something like this.</div><div><br></div>-- <br>=
<div class=3D"m_-5633257764016121167gmail-m_-4619625836520024992gmail_signa=
ture">De'vID</div>
</div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div></div>
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