[111339] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: vung
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Sat Sep 30 06:10:59 2017
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To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:35:26 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOu2T7ke0SoR5V2Wzi39_sQe2+ebz29dwCj52Nn_e4AzbQ@mail.gmail.com>
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On 9/29/2017 4:41 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:
> Also, going back to my original question, I remembered Okrand's
> translation of Sonnet 116 mentions some weather (his Klingon and his
> English):
>
> *jevqu'taHvIS muD ral, bejlI' parmaq. Qombe'! nISbe' jevwI', 'ej
> not ruS baq.* [...] /While the violent atmosphere storms, love
> still watches. It does not tremble! The storm does not disrupt it,
> and it never terminates the bond./
>
> Which suggests that *muD* is a reasonable explicit subject for weather
> verbs, and that *-wI'* can be used to refer to weather verbs as
> discrete systems (so *vungwI'* would then be a way to talk about
> hurricanes as nouns).
That we can use *muD* is not in question; Okrand confirmed that long
ago. The question is not what words can be used, but how they are used
by Klingons. One CAN say *SISlu',* said Okrand, but one doesn't.
Good find with the sonnet, though there's the caveat that Okrand wrote
one half and an unidentified Klingonist wrote the other half, and the
half without the *jev* seems more likely to be Okrand's work. We don't
know how closely Okrand may have looked at it. I'll consider this a
questionable data point in favor of *jevwI'.*
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/29/2017 4:41 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAG84SOu2T7ke0SoR5V2Wzi39_sQe2+ebz29dwCj52Nn_e4AzbQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div>Also, going back to my original question, I remembered
Okrand's translation of Sonnet 116 mentions some weather (his
Klingon and his English):</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<pre><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b>jevqu'taHvIS muD ral, bejlI' parmaq.
Qombe'! nISbe' jevwI', 'ej not ruS baq.</b>
[...]
<i>While the violent atmosphere storms, love still watches.
It does not tremble! The storm does not disrupt it, and it never terminates the bond.</i></span></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>Which suggests that <b>muD</b> is a reasonable explicit
subject for weather verbs, and that <b>-wI'</b> can be used to
refer to weather verbs as discrete systems (so <b>vungwI'</b>
would then be a way to talk about hurricanes as nouns).</div>
</blockquote>
<p>That we can use <b>muD</b> is not in question; Okrand confirmed
that long ago. The question is not what words can be used, but how
they are used by Klingons. One CAN say <b>SISlu',</b> said
Okrand, but one doesn't.</p>
<p>Good find with the sonnet, though there's the caveat that Okrand
wrote one half and an unidentified Klingonist wrote the other
half, and the half without the <b>jev</b> seems more likely to be
Okrand's work. We don't know how closely Okrand may have looked at
it. I'll consider this a questionable data point in favor of <b>jevwI'.</b><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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