[111303] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: vung
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (nIqolay Q)
Sat Sep 30 05:15:59 2017
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From: nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 14:49:18 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
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On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:53 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> I still don't understand..{qay'wI'} for "something that is a problem" is
> wrong ?
>
I think the idea here is "why wouldn't you just translate *qay'wI'* as the
noun 'problem'?"
On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:10 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> I wouldn't assume that *vungwI'* is the noun form of *hurricane* any more
> than I would assume that *SISwI'* is the noun form of *rain.*
>
I'm not sure the distinction is quite the same. Rain, as a noun and verb,
and presumably *SIS* also, refers mainly to the precipitation, whereas
*SISwI'*, if it meant anything, would probably refer to the rainclouds,
which have rain as one of their effects but are considered a distinct thing
from rain itself. Whereas in the case of hurricanes, the English noun
refers to both the weather conditions (rain, wind, storm surge, the stuff
associated with *vung*) brought about by the weather system, as well as the
weather system itself.
Now that I think about it, *vungwI'* might best be translated as the entire
system that gives rise to hurricane conditions. Not just the big swirly
mass of clouds you see on satellite pictures, but also the ocean
temperatures and currents, the steering winds, the jet stream, the
interactions with land, and so on, taken in a somewhat more holistic sense.
Likewise, *cheqwI'* would not simply mean the funnel cloud, but also the
storm cloud it hangs off from and the various updrafts and downdrafts
within it. And *SISwI'* would not *just* be a raincloud but also the
various cold or warm fronts that created it. I might be thinking about this
too meteorologically, though.
> Instead of trying to turn it into a noun, use it as a subjectless verb.
>
> *tugh **Florida**Daq vung; ghoSlI' **Irma.*
>
That works fine in a lot of cases, e.g. *naDev qen vung*, *"A hurricane
came through here recently."* But sometimes it's more convenient to be able
to refer to hurricanes as discrete things, like if you want to refer to
their size or intensity or track. I wonder if the *ver SuS'a'* example for
tornadoes could apply here: *vungbogh SuS'a'*, and perhaps *jevbogh SuS*
for smaller storms. And *vungbogh 'eng(mey)* for the big swirly thing in
the satellite pictures.
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:53 PM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto">I still don't understand..{qay'wI'} for "somethi=
ng that is a problem" is wrong ?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>I think the idea here is "why wouldn't you just translate <b>qay&=
#39;wI'</b> as the noun 'problem'?"</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:10 PM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D=
"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>>=
;</span> wrote:<br><span class=3D"gmail-"></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>I wouldn't assume that <b>vungwI'</b> is=
the noun form of <i>hurricane</i>
any more than I would assume that <b>SISwI'</b> is the noun form
of <i>rain.</i> </p></blockquote><div>I'm not sure the distinctio=
n is quite the same. Rain, as a noun and verb, and presumably <b>SIS</b> al=
so, refers mainly to the precipitation, whereas <b>SISwI'</b>, if it me=
ant anything, would probably refer to the rainclouds, which have rain as on=
e of their effects but are considered a distinct thing from rain itself. Wh=
ereas in the case of hurricanes, the English noun refers to both the weathe=
r conditions (rain, wind, storm surge, the stuff associated with <b>vung</b=
>) brought about by the weather system, as well as the weather system itsel=
f.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Now that I think about it, <b>vungwI'</=
b> might best be translated as the entire system that gives rise to hurrica=
ne conditions. Not just the big swirly mass of clouds you see on satellite =
pictures, but also the ocean temperatures and currents, the steering winds,=
the jet stream, the interactions with land, and so on, taken in a somewhat=
more holistic sense. Likewise, <b>cheqwI'</b> would not simply mean th=
e funnel cloud, but also the storm cloud it hangs off from and the various =
updrafts and downdrafts within it. And <b>SISwI'</b> would not <i>just<=
/i> be a raincloud but also the various cold or warm fronts that created it=
. I might be thinking about this too meteorologically, though.</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>Instead of trying to turn it =
into a noun, use it
as a subjectless verb.</p><p><b>tugh </b><i>Florida</i><b>Daq vung; g=
hoSlI' </b><i>Irma.</i><span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888=
888"><br></font></span></p></blockquote></div><div>That works fine in a lot=
of cases, e.g. <b>naDev qen vung</b>, <i>"A hurricane came through he=
re recently."</i> But sometimes it's more convenient to be able to=
refer to hurricanes as discrete things, like if you want to refer to their=
size or intensity or track. I wonder if the <b>ver SuS'a'</b> exam=
ple for tornadoes could apply here: <b>vungbogh SuS'a'</b>, and per=
haps <b>jevbogh SuS</b> for smaller storms. And <b>vungbogh 'eng(mey)</=
b> for the big swirly thing in the satellite pictures.<br>
=20
</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>
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