[111229] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Marc Okrand talking about DSC (spoilerfree)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Thu Sep 28 05:00:01 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org>,
"tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 00:30:41 +0000
In-Reply-To: <cc4b871b-7f92-ecfe-b210-367868eddc26@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============1165988550858054181==
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_000_150655864315227900kthse_"
--_000_150655864315227900kthse_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> If your "special occasion" is "anytime I want to use aspect and -jaj,"
> then the rule is completely abandoned. When would you not do it?
That would seem to describe every instance of mu'mey ru': You only use it w=
hen you want to use it.
So far, I believe I've only ever used it when talking about refugees, in th=
e sense that I want all who are currently fleeing to have-successfully-fled=
. I quite like the contrast between -taH and -ta' and find it quite effecti=
ve. Other times I've used something like {Haw'ta'wI'pu' mojjaj Hoch Haw'taH=
wI'pu'.}, but that's less punchy to my mind.
So, I suppose I'd use it when I think the desired effect is worth bending t=
he rules, and otherwise not.
________________________________
From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel=
<sustel@trimboli.name>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 02:24
To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Marc Okrand talking about DSC (spoilerfree)
On 9/27/2017 7:08 PM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
> But if you always do that, they're not really mu'mey ru'. You're taking t=
he exceptions to the
> language and applying them generally, while telling yourself that you're =
not really doing that.
I don't really think that's true, unless it catches on in a big way and sta=
rts being considered "correct" to some extent, or was treated as an ordinar=
y expression. It seems to match the definition of {mu'mey ru'}:
"Sometimes words or phrases are coined for a specific occasion, intentional=
ly violating grammatical rules in order to have an impact. Usually these ar=
e never heard again, though some gain currency and might as well be classif=
ied as slang. Klingon grammarians call such forms {mu'mey ru'} ("temporary =
words")."
I'll confess that when I first used this construction, I didn't realize tha=
t it was ungrammatical, so that was just a {Qaghna'}. Now I know, however, =
and intend to go on using it :)
If your "special occasion" is "anytime I want to use aspect and -jaj," then=
the rule is completely abandoned. When would you not do it?
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
--_000_150655864315227900kthse_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"><!--P{margin-top:0;margin-b=
ottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#F=
FFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>> <span style=3D"background-color:white;">If your "special occas=
ion" is "anytime I want to use aspect and
<strong>-jaj,</strong>"<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;">> then the rule is completely=
abandoned. When would you
<em>not</em> do it?<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;">That would seem to describe ever=
y instance of mu'mey ru': You only use it when you want to use it.<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;">So far, I believe I've only ever=
used it when talking about refugees, in the sense that I want all who are =
currently fleeing to have-successfully-fled. I quite like the contrast betw=
een -taH and -ta' and find it quite
effective. Other times I've used something like {Haw'ta'wI'pu' mojjaj Hoch=
Haw'taHwI'pu'.}, but that's less punchy to my mind.<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;">So, I suppose I'd use it when I =
think the desired effect is worth bending the rules, and otherwise not.<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white;"></span><br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> tlhIngan-Hol <tlh=
ingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel <sustel@trimboli=
.name><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 28, 2017 02:24<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Marc Okrand talking about DSC (spoilerfr=
ee)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 9/27/2017 7:08 PM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote=
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white">> But if you always do that, t=
hey're not really
<strong>mu'mey ru'.</strong> You're taking the exceptions to the<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white">> language and applying them g=
enerally, while telling yourself that you're not really doing that.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white">I don't really think that's true,=
unless it catches on in a big way and starts being considered "correc=
t" to some extent, or was treated as an ordinary expression. It seems =
to match the definition of {mu'mey ru'}:<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style=3D"background-color:white"></span>"Sometimes words or p=
hrases are coined for a specific occasion, intentionally violating grammati=
cal rules in order to have an impact. Usually these are never heard again, =
though some gain currency and might as
well be classified as slang. Klingon grammarians call such forms {mu'mey r=
u'} ("temporary words")."</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I'll confess that when I first used this construction, I didn't realize =
that it was ungrammatical, so that was just a {Qaghna'}. Now I know, howeve=
r, and intend to go on using it :)
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If your "special occasion" is "anytime I want to use aspe=
ct and <b>-jaj,</b>" then the rule is completely abandoned. When would=
you
<i>not</i> do it?<br>
</p>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">-- =0A=
SuStel=0A=
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://trimboli.name">http://tri=
mboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>
--_000_150655864315227900kthse_--
--===============1165988550858054181==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============1165988550858054181==--
