[111114] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing Anno Domini
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Sat Sep 23 03:26:55 2017
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In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cL3rbyF60JryFaBjSfy=h7mPnv8_vcX4qBVK4a+EU__KA@mail.gmail.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 21:26:49 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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qurgh:
> Maybe {tera' DIS wa'-pagh-pagh qaSpa' tera' DIS pagh,
> jagh luHIv} - "Terran year 100, before Terran year 0
> happened, they attacked the enemy.", but that still feels
> clunky to me.
I agree. Since the c.e./b.c.e. construction is to be used as part of a
larger sentence, if the construction which someone uses is long, then the
result will probably be a long and difficult to understand sentence.
So, so far, SuStel's {christ bov} -in my opinion- is superior.
As far as the {bov motlh} is concerned, I don't know whether I would
understand it to be "c.e.", unless someone had explained this to me first.
I know it will sound strange, but in Greek there's no c.e./b.c.e. In order
to express the year, someone has to use a.d./b.c. There is no other way,
and if there is, it is so rare, that I have never come across it.
The first time I read "c.e." in english, I had to google it to understand
what it means.. And even then it felt strange. So, reading the {bov motlh},
there is no way I would understand the intented meaning.
Now, qurgh, don't misunderstand me; the {bov motlh} is perfectly
understandable for a native english speaker; it is just that it could be
difficult for someone else, whose native language doesn't use the
c.e./b.c.e. method.
So, as a result of the above, I will use {christ bov nubwI'} for
b.c./b.c.e. and SuStel's {christ bov} for a.d./c.e.
qunnoq
On Sep 22, 2017 8:54 PM, "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> De'vID:
> > What's wrong with {*Christ* bov nubwI' DIS wa'}
>
> It is perfectly fine for expressing "before christ"; but how would you
> express "after christ" ?
>
> qunnoq
>
> On Sep 22, 2017 8:45 PM, "qurgh lungqIj" <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:39 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 22, 2017 19:23, "qurgh lungqIj" <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think this is the same as in English. If I say "It happened in the
>>> year 300" no one knows if I mean CE or BCE, but they assume I mean CE.
>>>
>>> If we had an easy way to talk about negative numbers, then I'd use that
>>> for BCE.
>>>
>>>
>>> But BCE years are not negative years. There's no "year zero".
>>>
>>
>> They kind of are though. They increase as you go backwards, just as
>> negative numbers do. I'm not suggesting this is the best way to do it, just
>> how I'd probably chose to do it without any guidance from Maltz.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> What's wrong with {*Christ* bov nubwI' DIS wa'} etc?
>>>
>>
>> I'd say it has the same problem that lead to the creation of CE and BCE
>> over AD and BC in the first place. You have to know who, or what, this
>> "Christ" is.
>>
>> qurgh
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
>> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
>> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>>
>>
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;f=
ont-size:14.6547px">qurgh:</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px">> Maybe {tera' DIS wa'-=
pagh-pagh qaSpa' tera' DIS pagh,=C2=A0</span></div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px">> jagh luHI=
v} - "Terran year 100, before Terran=C2=A0year 0=C2=A0</span></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px">&=
gt; happened, they attacked the enemy.", but that still feels=C2=A0</s=
pan></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size=
:14.6547px">> clunky to me.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D=
"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px">I agree. Si=
nce the c.e./b.c.e. construction is to be used as part of a larger sentence=
, if the construction which someone uses is long, then the result will prob=
ably be a long and difficult to understand sentence.</span></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px"><br></=
span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-siz=
e:14.6547px">So, so far, SuStel's {christ bov} -in my opinion- is super=
ior.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:14.6547px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-f=
amily:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px">As far as the {bov motlh} is concerne=
d, I don't know whether I would understand it to be "c.e.", u=
nless someone had explained this to me first.</span></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547px"><br></span></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14.6547=
px">I know it will sound strange, but in Greek there's no c.e./b.c.e. I=
n order to express the year, someone has to use a.d./b.c. There is no other=
way, and if there is, it is so rare, that I have never come across it.</sp=
an></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:=
14.6547px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14.6547px">The first time I read "c.e." in =
english, I had to google it to understand what it means.. And even then it =
felt strange. So, reading the {bov motlh}, there is no way I would understa=
nd the intented meaning.</span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D=
"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14.6547px"><br></span></font></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14.6547p=
x">Now, qurgh, don't misunderstand me; the {bov motlh} is perfectly und=
erstandable for a native english speaker; it is just that it could be diffi=
cult for someone else, whose native language doesn't use the c.e./b.c.e=
. method.</span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:14.6547px"><br></span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14.6547px">So, as a res=
ult of the above, I will use {christ bov nubwI'} for b.c./b.c.e. and Su=
Stel's {christ bov} for a.d./c.e.</span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
<font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14.6547px"><br></span></=
font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-=
size:14.6547px">qunnoq</span></font></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sep 22, 2017 8:54 PM, "mayqel quneno=
S" <<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.6=
96px">De'vID:</span></div><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-si=
ze:13.696px">> What's wrong with {*Christ* bov nubwI' DIS wa'=
;}</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:=
13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:13.696px">It is perfectly fine for expressing "be=
fore christ"; but how would you express "after christ" ?</sp=
an></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"=
font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D=
"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">qunnoq</span></font></div><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sep 22, 2=
017 8:45 PM, "qurgh lungqIj" <<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">qurgh@wizage.net</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attributio=
n"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extr=
a"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:39 PM, De'vID <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><span><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sep 22, 2017 19:23, "qurgh lungqIj" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh@wizage.net" target=3D"_blank">qurgh@wizage.net<=
/a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"m_3679780651952=
1366m_-4825391807216431656m_-7032006408071840583quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I thin=
k this is the same as in English. If I say "It happened in the year 30=
0" no one knows if I mean CE or BCE, but they assume I mean CE.=C2=A0<=
br><br>If we had an easy way to talk about negative numbers, then I'd u=
se that for BCE.</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div></span><div dir=3D"auto">But BCE years are not negative years. There&=
#39;s no "year zero".</div></div></blockquote><div><br>They kind =
of are though. They increase as you go backwards, just as negative numbers =
do. I'm not suggesting this is the best way to do it, just how I'd =
probably chose to do it without any guidance from Maltz.=C2=A0<br>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left=
:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">What's wrong with {*Christ* bov nubwI' DIS w=
a'} etc?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'd say it has=
the same problem that lead to the creation of CE and BCE over AD and BC in=
the first place. You have to know who, or what, this "Christ" is=
.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>qurgh</div></div><br></div></div>
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