[111073] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Nouns in apposition
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Thu Sep 21 04:21:44 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:35:44 -0400
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On 9/20/2017 9:02 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
> Suppose I write the sentence:
>
> {Qo'noSDaq SoSlI' juHDaq qajatlh, latlh be' vImuSHa'}
>
> "At Qo'noS at your mother's house I told you, that I love another woman".
>
> Do you agree with the above translation, or is it, that due to the
> absence of a {je} after the {juHDaq}, the meaning becomes "at your
> mother's house which is Qo'noS I told you, that I love another woman" ?
>
You could interpret it that way. I don't think the lack of a *je* makes
the difference. It could also be interpreted as two separate locatives
that both apply simultaneously, one being of a different scope than another.
In a cavern, in a canyon
Excavating for a mine
Dwelt a miner, forty-niner
And his daughter, Clementine.
In the verse, the locatives /in a cavern/ and /in a canyon/ are not in
apposition to each other. The cavern is within the canyon. The subjects
of the sentence both have appositional pairs: /a miner/ = /forty-niner/
and /his daughter/ = /Clementine./
In your Klingon sentence, it's possible that *SoSlI' juH* is within the
scope of *Qo'noS.*
If the sentence did have a *je,* the meaning would be different:
*Qo'noSDaq SoSlI' juHDaq je qajatlh
*/I speak to you on Kronos and in your mother's home/
Here it's possible that you speak to me in both of those places, but not
in a single utterance. One day you speak to me on Kronos; another day
you speak to me in my mother's house.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/20/2017 9:02 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cL-D1ua80eyu8wNOWAmViJsWZfrL+qVLNS6GqykPbAzzQ@mail.gmail.com">
<p dir="ltr">Suppose I write the sentence: </p>
<p dir="ltr">{Qo'noSDaq SoSlI' juHDaq qajatlh, latlh be' vImuSHa'}</p>
<p dir="ltr">"At Qo'noS at your mother's house I told you, that I
love another woman".</p>
<p dir="ltr">Do you agree with the above translation, or is it,
that due to the absence of a {je} after the {juHDaq}, the
meaning becomes "at your mother's house which is Qo'noS I told
you, that I love another woman" ?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You could interpret it that way. I don't think the lack of a <b>je</b>
makes the difference. It could also be interpreted as two separate
locatives that both apply simultaneously, one being of a different
scope than another.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>In a cavern, in a canyon<br>
Excavating for a mine<br>
Dwelt a miner, forty-niner<br>
And his daughter, Clementine.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In the verse, the locatives <i>in a cavern</i> and <i>in a canyon</i>
are not in apposition to each other. The cavern is within the
canyon. The subjects of the sentence both have appositional pairs:
<i>a miner</i> = <i>forty-niner</i> and <i>his daughter</i> = <i>Clementine.</i></p>
<p>In your Klingon sentence, it's possible that <b>SoSlI' juH</b>
is within the scope of <b>Qo'noS.</b></p>
<p>If the sentence did have a <b>je,</b> the meaning would be
different:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>Qo'noSDaq SoSlI' juHDaq je qajatlh<br>
</b><i>I speak to you on Kronos and in your mother's home</i></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Here it's possible that you speak to me in both of those places,
but not in a single utterance. One day you speak to me on Kronos;
another day you speak to me in my mother's house.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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