[110969] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Two {-'e'}'s in a pronoun sentence.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (qurgh lungqIj)
Wed Sep 13 03:56:25 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cLz1wKtAzMv2-YLUJMQOmxfLOtEDkwqjXS-FFK05QU2Cg@mail.gmail.com>
From: qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:47:14 -0400
To: "tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:21 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> nIqolay Q:
> > But after a while you have to realize that you're probably not > opening
> up productive new avenues of linguistic innovation, > you're just trying to
> convince yourself that nonsense isn't
> > nonsense.
>
> One thing which truly amazes me on this list, is how some people are
> always ready to judge others with regards to the questions they choose to
> ask.
>
I don't see his statement as judging, just stating that sometimes the path
that questions follow leads to nonsense. I read it as being from personal
experience. Sometimes we all go down the nonsense hole, and sometimes we
need someone else to point out that we are in it. This is part of the
learning process.
>
> Has anyone here appointed himself as the klingon-police, who will examine
> the quality of other people's questions and pass judgement as far as their
> motives for asking are concerned ?
>
No one is judging your motives for asking questions, but just as you have
the right to ask any question, others have the right to answer those
questions by saying the questions or answers don't make sense to them.
>
> Either you like it or not, different things will concern different people,
> and each person will require assistance with regards to the obstacles he
> has encountered.
>
> When I ask something, I am not asking in order to just post a question. I
> ask because I have come across an obstacle.
>
> Or do I need to explain myself each time I ask something ?
>
If you explained the obstacle that you came across, that would probably
actually be very helpful for those trying to get you answers. If we knew
you were trying to say X, then someone might be able to tell you a way it's
been expressed in the past. Context is very important in Klingon, so
abstract discussions of grammar can be tough if other people don't know
your goal. I, personally, can't think of a time when I'd want to use
something like {b'e' 'oH a'e'} or {yadda yadda yadda b'e' 'oHbogh 'a'e'}.
The example you give of {nepwI''e' chaH verengan'e'} would come out of my
head as {verengan nepwI''e' chaH} "They are Ferengi LIARS" which avoids the
issue. While {nutojta' nepwI''e' chaHbogh verengan'e'} would come out of my
head as {nuyojta' verengan nepwI''e'} "The Ferengi LIARS deceived us".
> So relax. Noone is defiling your immaculate klingon grammar.
>
I would ask you to do the same thing and not assume people are judging you
personally when they voice their opinion about a question or opinion you
wrote. You also did ask for people to correct you, and telling you that you
may be in the nonsense hole IS part of correcting you. :)
qurgh
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:21 PM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size=
:13.696px">nIqolay Q:</span></div><span class=3D"gmail-"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> But after a while you have to =
realize that you're probably not > opening up productive new avenues=
of linguistic innovation, > you're just trying to convince yourself=
that nonsense isn't=C2=A0</span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-=
family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">> nonsense.=C2=A0</span></div><div=
dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br=
></span></div></span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-seri=
f;font-size:13.696px">One thing which truly amazes me on this list, is how =
some people are always ready to judge others with regards to the questions =
they choose to ask.</span></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do=
n't see his statement as judging, just stating that sometimes the path =
that questions follow leads to nonsense. I read it as being from personal e=
xperience. Sometimes we all go down the nonsense hole, and sometimes we nee=
d someone else to point out that we are in it. This is part of the learning=
process.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddi=
ng-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family=
:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font fa=
ce=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">Has anyone here appoin=
ted himself as the klingon-police, who will examine the quality of other pe=
ople's questions and pass judgement as far as their motives for asking =
are concerned ?</span></font></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>N=
o one is judging your motives for asking questions, but just as you have th=
e right to ask any question, others have the right to answer those question=
s by saying the questions or answers don't make sense to them.=C2=A0<br=
>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"=
auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:=
13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-seri=
f"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">Either you like it or not, different =
things will concern different people, and each person will require assistan=
ce with regards to the obstacles he has encountered.</span></font></div></d=
iv></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-=
serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">When I ask something, I am not as=
king in order to just post a question. I ask because I have come across an =
obstacle.</span></font></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sa=
ns-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">Or=
do I need to explain myself each time I ask something ?=C2=A0</span></font=
></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If you explained the obstacle=
that you came across, that would probably actually be very helpful for tho=
se trying to get you answers. If we knew you were trying to say X, then som=
eone might be able to tell you a way it's been expressed in the past. C=
ontext is very important in Klingon, so abstract discussions of grammar can=
be tough if other people don't know your goal. I, personally, can'=
t think of a time when I'd want to use something like=C2=A0<span style=
=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)">{b'e' 'oH a'e'} or=C2=A0</span>=
{yadda yadda yadda b'e' 'oHbogh 'a'e'}.=C2=A0<br><b=
r>The example you give of=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">{nepwI'=
'e' chaH verengan'e'} would come out of my head as {verenga=
n nepwI''e' chaH} "They are Ferengi LIARS" which avoi=
ds the issue. While=C2=A0{nutojta' nepwI''e' chaHbogh veren=
gan'e'} would come out of my head as {nuyojta' verengan nepwI&#=
39;'e'} "The Ferengi LIARS deceived=C2=A0us".=C2=A0</span=
></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:13.696px"><br></span></font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"=
sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:13.696px">So relax. Noone is defiling =
your immaculate klingon grammar.</span></font></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br>I would ask you to do the same thing and not assume people are judging=
you personally when they voice their opinion about a question or opinion y=
ou wrote. You also did ask for people to correct you, and telling you that =
you may be in the nonsense hole IS part of correcting you. :)</div><div><br=
></div><div>qurgh</div></div></div></div>
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