[110753] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Sentence as object using {'oH}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (nIqolay Q)
Tue Aug 22 10:50:14 2017
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From: nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2017 10:50:10 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:00 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?
>
Okrand has never used or commented on using {'e'} with a copula pronoun
(i.e. a pronoun used verbally to mean "to be"), so we don't know if {'e'
'oH} constructions are acceptable or not. If they are, though, your
sentence is probably grammatically acceptable, though a little redundant.
There is the question of whether {vIghro'mey} and other animals are
actually capable of intention and can therefore use the {-ta'} suffix,
though that's more of a philosophical question than a syntactic one.
(Although, since {'e'} is a pronoun, maybe it can be used as a copula
too... perhaps {chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' vIt'e'}? Actually, no,
that's too crazy even for me.)
On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:23 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> The proposed version with *=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 *might be technically corr=
ect, but I have
> a hard time believing Klingons use verb-acting pronouns in
> sentence-as-object constructions. The final verb in an SAO should general=
ly
> be something simple and unexceptional.
>
This sounds more like a subjective stylistic choice rather than a
grammatical rule. I agree that in most cases there's probably shorter or
clearer ways to phrase a given sentence than {'e' 'oH}, but I wouldn't rule
it out entirely just because most Klingons wouldn't phrase it like that.
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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 8:00 AM, mayqel qunenoS <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun=
@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"au=
to"><span class=3D"gmail-"></span><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-fam=
ily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">Is </span><span style=3D"font-family:san=
s-serif;font-size:13.696px">{chabHommeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e=
' 'oH vIt'e'} correct ?</span></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Okrand has never used or commented on using {'e'} w=
ith a copula pronoun (i.e. a pronoun used verbally to mean "to be"=
;), so we don't know if {'e' 'oH} constructions are accepta=
ble or not. If they are, though, your sentence is probably grammatically ac=
ceptable, though a little redundant. There is the question of whether {vIgh=
ro'mey} and other animals are actually capable of intention and can the=
refore use the {-ta'} suffix, though that's more of a philosophical=
question than a syntactic one.<br><br></div><div>(Although, since {'e&=
#39;} is a pronoun, maybe it can be used as a copula too... perhaps {chabHo=
mmeylIj Sopta' vIghro'wIj 'e' vIt'e'}? Actually, no=
, that's too crazy even for me.)<br><br>On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:23 A=
M, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" tar=
get=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"></p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal">The proposed version with <b>=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99 </b>might
be technically correct, but I have a hard time believing Klingons use=20
verb-acting pronouns in sentence-as-object constructions. The final verb
in an SAO should generally be something simple and unexceptional.<br></p><=
/blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>This sounds mor=
e like a subjective stylistic choice rather than a grammatical rule. I agre=
e that in most cases there's probably shorter or clearer ways to phrase=
a given sentence than {'e' 'oH}, but I wouldn't rule it ou=
t entirely just because most Klingons wouldn't phrase it like that.<br>=
</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>
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