[110554] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] When did you buy the phone which you now use ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Fri Aug 11 09:49:31 2017
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In-Reply-To: <BN4PR11MB0852027CB87E4F10A0455DB0C1890@BN4PR11MB0852.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:49:27 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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All of these are indeed wonderful suggestions, but let me ask you something=
.
Is the original sentence {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
grammatically
correct ?
Can we have side by side {ghorgh} and {DaH} ? This has been the source of
my confusion in the first place..
qunnoq
On 11 Aug 2017 4:39 pm, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Niqolay Q is right, but without any context I would have to think about i=
t
> for a moment. In writing, punctuation is helpful:
>
>
>
> DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh, ghorgh Daje' ?
>
> The phone you=E2=80=99re using now, when did you buy it?
>
>
>
> Since you can=E2=80=99t see punctuation in speech, using {-=E2=80=98e=E2=
=80=99} (topic) is
> helpful, as well as a slight pause after the first clause (which is what =
a
> comma represents):
>
>
>
> DaH ghogh HablI'=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 Dalo'bogh [pause] ghorgh Daje' ?
>
> As for the phone you=E2=80=99re using now, when did you buy it?
>
> That phone you=E2=80=99re using now, when did you buy it?
>
>
>
> Before qunnoq asks=E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m using =E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=9D col=
loquially as a topic marker in
> English =E2=80=93 not necessarily to distinguish =E2=80=9Cthat phone=E2=
=80=9D (over there) from
> =E2=80=9Cthis phone=E2=80=99 (in my hand).
>
>
>
> --Voragh
>
>
>
> *From:* tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] *On
> Behalf Of *nIqolay Q
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> I was wondering whether we can pack into a single klingon sentence, the
> question:
>
>
>
> "When did you buy the phone, which you now use ?"
>
>
>
> If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would have:
>
>
>
> {ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}
>
>
>
> But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH}, results in an
> awkward sentence
>
>
>
> It doesn't seem that awkward to me. Since it doesn't make sense for the
> {DaH} to go with {Daje'}, it must be going with the relative clause.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">All of these are indeed wonderful suggestions, but let me=
ask you something.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Is the ori=
ginal sentence=C2=A0<span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696p=
x">{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje' ?}=C2=A0</span>gram=
matically correct ?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Can =
we have side by side {ghorgh} and {DaH} ? This has been the source of my co=
nfusion in the first place..</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"a=
uto">qunnoq</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote">On 11 Aug 2017 4:39 pm, "Steven Boozer" <<a href=3D"mail=
to:sboozer@uchicago.edu">sboozer@uchicago.edu</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"att=
ribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-5861541553834948817WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Niqolay Q is right, but without any c=
ontext I would have to think about it for a moment.=C2=A0 In writing, punct=
uation is helpful:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh, ghorgh Da=
je' ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 The phone you=E2=80=99re using=
now, when did you buy it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Since you can=E2=80=99t see punctuati=
on in speech, using {-=E2=80=98e=E2=80=99} (topic) is helpful, as well as a=
slight pause after the first clause (which is what a comma represents):<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 DaH ghogh HablI'=E2=80=99e=E2=80=99 Dalo&=
#39;bogh [pause] ghorgh Daje' ?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 As for the phone you=E2=80=99r=
e using now, when did you buy it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0 That phone you=E2=80=99re usin=
g now, when did you buy it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Before qunnoq asks=E2=80=A6 =C2=A0I=
=E2=80=99m using =E2=80=9Cthat=E2=80=9D colloquially as a topic marker in E=
nglish =E2=80=93 not necessarily to distinguish =E2=80=9Cthat phone=E2=80=
=9D (over there) from =E2=80=9Cthis phone=E2=80=99 (in
my hand).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">--Voragh<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-h=
ol-bounces@<wbr>lists.kli.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>nIqolay Q<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <=
<a href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">mihkoun@gmail.com</a=
>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I was wondering whether we can pack into a single kl=
ingon sentence, the question:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">"When did you buy the phone, which you now use =
?"<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">If we translated it exactly, then perhaps we would h=
ave:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">{ghorgh DaH ghogh HablI' Dalo'bogh Daje'=
?}<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But the existence, side-by-side of {ghorgh} and {DaH=
}, results in an awkward sentence<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It doesn't seem that awkward to me. Since it doe=
sn't make sense for the {DaH} to go with {Daje'}, it must be going =
with the relative clause.
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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><br>
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<br></blockquote></div></div>
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