[109981] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] same sex marriage
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (John R. Harness)
Mon Jul 17 16:21:15 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <092c88a0-2f88-4949-34d7-b25335d17b9d@gmx.de>
From: "John R. Harness" <cartweel@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:21:12 -0500
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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I'm sad that Rebecca has left the group because they perceived this message
from Maltz to be a lecture about Klingon heteronormativity. I can see how
the message might seem that way: indeed, Maltz/Marc has given us
information about historical Klingon views on the subject of marriage which
(as has been shown above in this thread) match some heteronormative views
that some earthlings have held and do hold.
My take away from the message is that Marc O is doing a great job of
grounding some new terms in a sense of history--as he is generally so good
at doing! Yes, MO tells us some information about a complimentarian,
heteronormative viewpoint on Qo'noS... but *then* he goes on to show how
those viewpoints are being expanded, forgotten, disregarded, or upended by
novel uses of Saw/nay and tlhogh. Personally I find this much more
interesting than what could have just been some new words, randomly
generated, for the topics.
So, as a gay and sometimes gender non-conforming Klingon speaker, I read
this as MO very thoughtfully responding to requests from within the
community for expanded terminology. I also happen to know (as he stated
publically at last qep'a') that he is working on vocabulary regarding
gender non-conformity and intersex individuals among other things. In fact
I'd like to highlight how, at the time, MO stated that he had not rushed to
produce those words before qep'a' cha'maH wejDIch because he wanted to
approach the topics with care and clarity.
I hope that with the context I've just described people will read this
message from Maltz as I do: positively.
'arHa
--
Socialist Alternative <http://www.socialistalternative.org/>
Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/>
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
> Am 17.07.2017 um 10:40 schrieb De'vID:
>
>> QIn naQ laDba'pu'. ghaH maw bertlham'e'.
>>
>
> pa' mawbogh 'ay' vIghovbe'. chaq Hol neH vIbuSmo' vIleghbe', chaq
> mumawbe'mo' De', mawwI' vIleghbe'. HIchuH. (chaq jIHvaD neH QIn yIngeH 'ej
> DIvI' Hol yIlo')
>
>
> --
> Lieven L. Litaer
> aka Quvar valer 'utlh
> Grammarian of the KLI
> http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher
> http://www.klingonwiki.net
> _______________________________________________
> tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I'm sad that Rebecca has left the group because they p=
erceived this message from Maltz to be a lecture about Klingon heteronormat=
ivity. I can see how the message might seem that way: indeed, Maltz/Marc ha=
s given us information about historical Klingon views on the subject of mar=
riage which (as has been shown above in this thread) match some heteronorma=
tive views that some earthlings have held and do hold.<br><br>My take away =
from the message is that Marc O is doing a great job of grounding some new =
terms in a sense of history--as he is generally so good at doing! Yes, MO t=
ells us some information about a complimentarian, heteronormative viewpoint=
on Qo'noS... but *then* he goes on to show how those viewpoints are be=
ing expanded, forgotten, disregarded, or upended by novel uses of Saw/nay a=
nd tlhogh. Personally I find this much more interesting than what could hav=
e just been some new words, randomly generated, for the topics.<div><br></d=
iv><div>So, as a gay and sometimes gender non-conforming Klingon speaker, I=
read this as MO very thoughtfully responding to requests from within the c=
ommunity for expanded terminology. I also happen to know (as he stated publ=
ically at last qep'a') that he is working on vocabulary regarding g=
ender non-conformity and intersex individuals among other things. In fact I=
'd like to highlight how, at the time, MO stated that he had not rushed=
to produce those words before qep'a' cha'maH wejDIch because h=
e wanted to approach the topics with care and clarity.<br><br>I hope that w=
ith the context I've just described people will read this message from =
Maltz as I do: positively.</div><div><br></div><div>'arHa</div></div><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signatu=
re" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><font color=3D"#808080" face=3D"Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><span=
style=3D"font-size:10.6667px"><br>--<br><br><a href=3D"http://www.socialis=
talternative.org/" target=3D"_blank">Socialist Alternative</a></span></font=
><div><font color=3D"#808080" face=3D"Arial, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:10.6667px"><a href=3D"http://www.kli.org/" target=3D=
"_blank">Klingon Language Institute</a></span></font></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:44 AM, Lieven <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:levinius@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">levi=
nius@gmx.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span c=
lass=3D"">Am 17.07.2017 um 10:40 schrieb De'vID:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
QIn naQ laDba'pu'. ghaH maw bertlham'e'.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
pa' mawbogh 'ay' vIghovbe'. chaq Hol neH vIbuSmo' vIleg=
hbe', chaq mumawbe'mo' De', mawwI' vIleghbe'. HIchu=
H. (chaq jIHvaD neH QIn yIngeH 'ej DIvI' Hol yIlo')<span class=
=3D"im HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Lieven L. Litaer<br>
aka Quvar valer 'utlh<br>
Grammarian of the KLI<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.facebook.com/Klingo<wbr>nteacher</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://www.klingonwiki.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://www.klingonwiki.net</a><br></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=
=3D"h5">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhIngan-Ho=
l@lists.kli.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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