[109920] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: 'aSya'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Thu Jul 13 16:37:04 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:36:27 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAG84SOs5tmpgiW+CDBCNGd4C2KcffOs3kGXduZWtcRJ0C8Hz0g@mail.gmail.com>
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On 7/13/2017 4:12 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de
> <mailto:levinius@gmx.de>> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:33 PM, mayqel qunenoS
> <mihkoun@gmail.com <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> So we can glue two nouns together ?
>
>
> Am 13.07.2017 um 19:25 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:
>
> The common practice is to keep nouns separate [...]
>
>
> Am 13.07.2017 um 19:45 schrieb SuStel:
> > No. Your question is exactly why we have to be careful when telling
> > people that Okrand said it wasn't a big deal.
>
> Indeed, all of the above is correct, and I won't contradict.
>
> Just for the record, I want to add that this is something that we
> have agreed on, just because it makes it easier for beginners (and
> others) to read the words. This is one of the situations of TKD
> that leaves different interpretations and has lead to long
> discussions in the past: some say that TKD only explains compound
> nouns, others see it as a guideline how to "make" compound words.
> The three lines in TKD are really not much, and after all, it
> really doesn't matter, so Okrand is right that we shouldn't bother
> too much about that.
>
>
> I still think coining new compound words is acceptable, but I do
> understand the value of not confusing beginners, so I'll stay off the
> topic from now on.
I'll just point out a little tidbit. It doesn't prove anything one way
or the other.
When working on /Star Trek V,/ Okrand had written the line *vaj
toDDujDaj ngeHbej DIvI'*/That means the Federation will be sending its
own rescue ship./ But during production Klaa says the line twice, and
the second time it's supposed to mean /Shooting space garbage is no test
of a warrior's mettle./ We get the text of this line later in /The
Klingon Way:/ *vaj toDuj Daj ngeHbej DI vI'* (literally, /cosmos rubble
marksmanship inconclusively tests warriorhood courage/). Here, Okrand
went out of his way to separate *DI* and *vI',* obviously to say /look
out! these aren't what you think they are./ But Klaa pronounces them
exactly the same as *DIvI'*/Federation./ And if he were really
interested in pushing together words, he's probably have gone with
*ngeHbejDI vI'* for /cosmos//-rubble marksmanship./ But he didn't. He
kept separate words as separate words.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/13/2017 4:12 PM, nIqolay Q wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAG84SOs5tmpgiW+CDBCNGd4C2KcffOs3kGXduZWtcRJ0C8Hz0g@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:47 PM,
Lieven <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:levinius@gmx.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">levinius@gmx.de</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div><span class="">On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 12:33 PM,
mayqel qunenoS <<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mihkoun@gmail.com</a><br>
</span><span class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
So we can glue two nouns together ?<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>
Am 13.07.2017 um 19:25 schrieb qurgh lungqIj:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The common practice is to keep nouns separate [...]<br>
</blockquote>
<span class="">
<br>
Am 13.07.2017 um 19:45 schrieb SuStel:<br>
> No. Your question is exactly why we have to be
careful when telling<br>
> people that Okrand said it wasn't a big deal.<br>
<br>
</span>
Indeed, all of the above is correct, and I won't
contradict.<br>
<br>
</div>
Just for the record, I want to add that this is something
that we have agreed on, just because it makes it easier
for beginners (and others) to read the words. This is one
of the situations of TKD that leaves different
interpretations and has lead to long discussions in the
past: some say that TKD only explains compound nouns,
others see it as a guideline how to "make" compound words.
The three lines in TKD are really not much, and after all,
it really doesn't matter, so Okrand is right that we
shouldn't bother too much about that.<span class="HOEnZb"></span></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I still think coining new compound words is acceptable,
but I do understand the value of not confusing beginners,
so I'll stay off the topic from now on.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I'll just point out a little tidbit. It doesn't prove anything
one way or the other.<br>
</p>
<p>When working on <i>Star Trek V,</i> Okrand had written the line
<b>vaj toDDujDaj ngeHbej DIvI'</b><i> That means the Federation
will be sending its own rescue ship.</i> But during production
Klaa says the line twice, and the second time it's supposed to
mean <i>Shooting space garbage is no test of a warrior's mettle.</i>
We get the text of this line later in <i>The Klingon Way:</i> <b>vaj
toDuj Daj ngeHbej DI vI'</b> (literally, <i>cosmos rubble
marksmanship inconclusively tests warriorhood courage</i>).
Here, Okrand went out of his way to separate <b>DI</b> and <b>vI',</b>
obviously to say <i>look out! these aren't what you think they
are.</i> But Klaa pronounces them exactly the same as <b>DIvI'</b><i>
Federation.</i> And if he were really interested in pushing
together words, he's probably have gone with <b>ngeHbejDI vI'</b>
for <i>cosmos</i><i>-rubble marksmanship.</i> But he didn't. He
kept separate words as separate words.</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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