[109856] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: chep
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Fri Jul 7 12:53:34 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 12:53:01 -0400
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On 7/7/2017 12:35 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> SuStel:
>> It is using pa' as a non-subject, non-object noun placed before the OVS structure, and
>> Dab here has no object: some years ago, thereabouts, inhabitants inhabited (in general).
>> This is not actually ungrammatical, just a bit odd.
> This confuses me a little; is it legal to have an unmarked noun before the OVS ?
Certainly. Both time expressions and inherently locative nouns *(naDev,
pa', Dat)* may go before the OVS.
*wa'leS jImej* /I will leave tomorrow/
*naDev SoQmey vIjatlh*/I give speeches here
/*pa' Heghpu'*/he died there/
> And something else.. Would you accept as grammatically correct the
> {pa' vIparHa'} for "I like the there" ? Can the {pa'} (in its meaning
> as "there") be used as an object ?
There's no actual rule against it, but I think it normally doesn't
occur. It /does/ occur with verbs of motion, because they inherently
treat their objects as locatives, but you don't see this sort of thing
with other verbs. A thing you like is not an inherently locative
concept. So whether it's grammatically correct is unclear, but you're
better off not trying to do it.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/7/2017 12:35 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLvkDf4QJaSPvxi+qzD9XYBTKyo9UQ_uviawtsJRr=n_w@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">SuStel:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="color: #000000;">
<pre wrap="">It is using pa' as a non-subject, non-object noun placed before the OVS structure, and
Dab here has no object: some years ago, thereabouts, inhabitants inhabited (in general).
This is not actually ungrammatical, just a bit odd.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">This confuses me a little; is it legal to have an unmarked noun before the OVS ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Certainly. Both time expressions and inherently locative nouns <b>(naDev,
pa', Dat)</b> may go before the OVS.<br>
</p>
<p><b>wa'leS jImej</b> <i>I will leave tomorrow</i><br>
<b>naDev SoQmey vIjatlh</b><i> I give speeches here<br>
</i><b>pa' Heghpu'</b><i> he died there</i><br>
</p>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLvkDf4QJaSPvxi+qzD9XYBTKyo9UQ_uviawtsJRr=n_w@mail.gmail.com">
<pre wrap="">And something else.. Would you accept as grammatically correct the
{pa' vIparHa'} for "I like the there" ? Can the {pa'} (in its meaning
as "there") be used as an object ?</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>There's no actual rule against it, but I think it normally
doesn't occur. It <i>does</i> occur with verbs of motion, because
they inherently treat their objects as locatives, but you don't
see this sort of thing with other verbs. A thing you like is not
an inherently locative concept. So whether it's grammatically
correct is unclear, but you're better off not trying to do it.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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