[109799] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] qep'a' webpage
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Thu Jul 6 11:27:45 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <93eaf4bc-4757-afd8-18cd-f5ae1aeff480@trimboli.name>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2017 18:27:41 +0300
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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SuStel:
> *pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj meyrI' SoH*
*if you are not there then you are a square*
The placement of {-be'} confuses me. If we choose to place it after the
{-taH} then doesn't the meaning become "If you aren't there continuously" ?
Perhaps this is indeed the intented meaning, the speaker trying to say "if
you aren't continuously there, then..".
But wouldn't you accept, as a more literal way of saying "If you aren't
there.." the {pa' SoHbe'taHchugh..} ?
The only reasoning I see for placing the {-be'} after the {-taH}, is if we
consider (because of the {pa'}) the {SoHtaH} as an "unable to be separated
pair of words", thus leaving as an only option the placement of the {-be'}
after it.
qunnoq
On 6 Jul 2017 4:48 pm, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
> On 7/6/2017 5:32 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
>
> lay'tel SIvten ('ej latlhpu')
>
> pa' SoHtaH pagh meyrI' SoHtaH!
> "Be there, or be square!"
>
> I don't think that grammar-wise the {pa' SoHtaH} can stand for "be
> there !". Even if one speaks this phrase coloring his voice with an
> imperative tone, then again the meaning would be "you are there", with
> the context of "you are being there" (meaning I am making an
> observation that "you are there"). And all this with an imperative
> tone, which doesn't make much sense.
>
> If I was to translate the "be there !" in klingon, I would choose
> something like {pa' yISaH'eghmoH}.
>
> If I were to temporarily accept *meyrI'* as meaning the same thing as the
> obsolete English slang meaning of *square,* I would pattern this
> utterance on existing Klingon:
>
>
> *pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj meyrI' SoH **if you are not there then you are a
> square*
>
> Using *pa' bISaHbe'chugh* is also acceptable.
>
> If I were to look for an actual bit of Klingon slang, I might say one of
> these:
>
>
> *pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj bInatlh **if you are not there then you consume
> (reprehensible, disguisting, contemptible)*
>
>
> *pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj Hom SoH **if you are not there then you are a
> bone (weakling, runt, scrawny one, skinny one)*
>
>
> *pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj bolwI' SoH **if you are not there then you are a
> drooler (traitor)*
>
> And so on.
>
> --
> SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
>
>
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> tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
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>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">SuStel:<div dir=3D"auto">>=C2=A0<b style=3D"font-famil=
y:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj meyrI' =
SoH</b></div><i style=3D"font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px">if you =
are not there then you are a square</i><div dir=3D"auto"><i style=3D"font-f=
amily:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span =
style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">The placement of {-be'} confuses me. I=
f we choose to place it after the {-taH} then doesn't the meaning becom=
e "If you aren't there continuously" ?</span><i style=3D"font=
-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px"><br></i></div><div dir=3D"auto"><spa=
n style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font=
face=3D"sans-serif">Perhaps this is indeed the intented meaning, the speak=
er trying to say "if you aren't continuously there, then..".<=
/font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br></font></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">But wouldn't you accept, as a=
more literal way of saying "If you aren't there.." the {pa&#=
39; SoHbe'taHchugh..} ?</font></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"fon=
t-family:sans-serif">The only reasoning I see for placing the {-be'} af=
ter the {-taH}, is if we consider (because of the {pa'}) the {SoHtaH} a=
s an "unable to be separated pair of words", thus leaving as an o=
nly option the placement of the {-be'} after it.</span></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><br></span></div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">qunnoq</span></div></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 6 Jul 2017 4:48=
pm, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">sustel@=
trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
<div class=3D"m_-1938885718442262460moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/2017 5:32 A=
M, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<pre>lay'tel SIvten ('ej latlhpu')
</pre>
<blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"color:#000000">
<pre>pa' SoHtaH pagh meyrI' SoHtaH!
"Be there, or be square!"
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre>I don't think that grammar-wise the {pa' SoHtaH} can sta=
nd for "be
there !". Even if one speaks this phrase coloring his voice with an
imperative tone, then again the meaning would be "you are there",=
with
the context of "you are being there" (meaning I am making an
observation that "you are there"). And all this with an imperativ=
e
tone, which doesn't make much sense.
If I was to translate the "be there !" in klingon, I would choose
something like {pa' yISaH'eghmoH}.</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>If I were to temporarily accept <b>meyrI'</b> as meaning the
same thing as the obsolete English slang meaning of <i>square,</i>
I would pattern this utterance on existing Klingon:</p>
<p><b>pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj meyrI' SoH<br>
</b><i>if you are not there then you are a square</i></p>
<p>Using <b>pa' bISaHbe'chugh</b> is also acceptable.<br>
</p>
<p>If I were to look for an actual bit of Klingon slang, I might say
one of these:<br>
</p>
<p><b>pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj bInatlh<br>
</b><i>if you are not there then you consume (reprehensible,
disguisting, contemptible)</i></p>
<p><b>pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj Hom SoH<br>
</b><i>if you are not there then you are a bone (weakling, runt, scra=
wny
one, skinny one)</i></p>
<p><b>pa' SoHtaHbe'chugh vaj bolwI' SoH<br>
</b><i>if you are not there then you are a drooler (traitor)</i></p>
<p>And so on.<br>
</p>
<pre class=3D"m_-1938885718442262460moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-1938885718442262460moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://tri=
mboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</div>
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