[109678] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Rising Heroes Video
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Alan Anderson)
Thu Jun 1 20:22:02 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAMy7=Ht4VY=KjGWnDb=79kkToCtKAr8Ji0iN0Xt5g6v02XrQPQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 20:21:39 -0400
To: Klingon language email discussion forum <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Cc: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============1695470386743845422==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11499f6a508d7e0550ef249b"
--001a11499f6a508d7e0550ef249b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Thu, Jun 1, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Juliana Bukoski <jfbukoski@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I was hoping someone could look at this and let me know if there are
> any errors:
>
I see some wording that I would change for clarity and/or style, but only a
couple of outright errors. I'll mark my corrections with *** asterisks.
> tlhIngan Hol vIHaD. cha' ngoQ vIghaj. wa'DIch: Hol patlh ghojwI' vIchav
> vIneH.
>
I'd say {ghojwI' Hol patlh}. It is probably fine in the order you did it,
but I think it sounds better the other way around.
> patlhvam chavlu'meH, qep'a'Daq qaD tu'lu'.
>
Since {qaD} is also a verb, I would make it more concise: {qep'a'Daq
qaDlu'.} Your wording is perfectly understandable, but I usually try not to
rely too much on {tu'lu'}.
> 'op mu'tlhegh mughnISlu'. qaDvamvaD jIqeqmeH,
>
[Note that you used {qeq} in an intransitive sense here. The subject is
what gets the benefit of the training. I'll come back to that later.]
> 'echletHomDaq mu'tay' vISovnISbogh jIghItlhpu'.
>
The suffix {-ta'} is probably more appropriate than {-pu'}. Presumably you
set out to write the vocabulary, and you accomplished it.
> jIyIttaHvIS vIHaD. pab vIHaDmeH, mu'ghom tlhIngan vIlaDqa' 'ej paq latlh,
> "From the Grammarian's Desk", vIlaDchoHpu'.
>
*** You have some noun-noun phrases backwards. "Klingon dictionary" is
{tlhIngan mu'ghom}, and "another book" is {latlh paq}. (You probably can't
get away with just saying {latlh} "additional one" there, since you didn't
explicitly refer to TKD as a book.)
> tlhIngan Hol jIQoyDI', vIyajlaH vIneH.
>
*** The first verb needs to have a prefix matching the third-person object:
{vIQoyDI'}.
> ngoQ cha'DIch 'oH.
>
I would have expected {ngoQwIj}, and indeed your English version says
"my...goal." I'll not call it an error, but you probably should add the
possessive suffix.
> ngoQvam Qatlh law' ngoQwIj wa'DIch Qatlh puS. wa' ben, mu' law' vISov,
> 'ach jIHvaD jatlhchugh vay', vIyajlaHbe'.
>
majQa'. pupchu' Hoch.
> vaj, teSDu'wIj vIqeqnIS.
>
*** Remember when I asked you to note how you used {qeq} before? You're
using it differently here, with the object receiving the benefit of the
training. I believe your first sentence has the right meaning, and you need
to find either a different word or a different grammatical structure for
this one. It could be as easy as adding the suffix {-moH}:
vaj teSDu'wIj vIqeqnISmoH
Or you could turn it around:
vaj qeqnIS teSDu'wIj
Neither of these sounds perfect to me, though.
> qon puS vIghaj. qonDaq, tlhIngan Hol jatlh po'wI'pu'.
>
*** {qon} "record" is a verb. You can substitute the noun {ta}, and I
suggest calling it a {ghogh ta} "voice record" or {wab ta} "sound record"
in the first mention.
*** The final verb needs the proper prefix: {lujatlh}.
> vI'Ij 'ej mu'mey jatlhbogh vIghItlh 'e' vInID. bom tlhIngan vI'Ij je.
>
*** {tlhIngan bom} for "Klingon songs"
jupwI', DaH peja'. ngoQraj bochav'a'? tlhIngan vIttlheghvam yIqaw:
> bIQapqu'meH, tar DaSop 'e' DatIvnIS.
>
majQa'! It's simple, straightforward, and close enough that I understood
what you intended before I looked at the English.
-- ghunchu'wI'
--001a11499f6a508d7e0550ef249b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Jun 1, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Juliana Bukoski <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=
=3D"mailto:jfbukoski@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jfbukoski@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div>...I was hoping someone could look at this and let me know=
if there are any errors:</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I see=
some wording that I would change for clarity and/or style, but only a coup=
le of outright errors. I'll mark my corrections with *** asterisks.</di=
v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>tlhIngan Hol vIHaD. cha' ngoQ vIghaj. wa'DIch: Hol =
patlh ghojwI' vIchav vIneH.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>I'd say {ghojwI' Hol patlh}. It is probably fine in the order you =
did it, but I think it sounds better the other way around.</div><div>=C2=A0=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv> patlhvam chavlu'meH, qep'a'Daq qaD tu'lu'. </div></=
div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Since {qaD} is also a verb, I would ma=
ke it more concise: {qep'a'Daq qaDlu'.} Your wording is perfect=
ly understandable, but I usually try not to rely too much on {tu'lu'=
;}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>'op mu'tlhegh mughnISlu'. qaDvamvaD jIqe=
qmeH,</div></div></blockquote><div><br>[Note that you used {qeq} in an intr=
ansitive sense here. The subject is what gets the benefit of the training. =
I'll come back to that later.]<br>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> 'echletHomDaq mu'ta=
y' vISovnISbogh jIghItlhpu'.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div=
><div>The suffix {-ta'} is probably more appropriate than {-pu'}. P=
resumably you set out to write the vocabulary, and you accomplished it.</di=
v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>jIyIttaHvIS vIHaD. pab vIHaDmeH, mu'ghom tlhIngan vIlaD=
qa' 'ej paq latlh, "From the Grammarian's Desk", vIla=
DchoHpu'.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>*** You have some=
noun-noun phrases backwards. "Klingon dictionary" is {tlhIngan m=
u'ghom}, and "another book" is {latlh paq}. (You probably can=
't get away with just saying {latlh} "additional one" there, =
since you didn't explicitly refer to TKD as a book.)<br></div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div>tlhIngan Hol jIQoyDI', vIyajlaH vIneH. </div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>*** The first verb needs to have a prefix matching the t=
hird-person object: {vIQoyDI'}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>ngoQ cha'DIch &#=
39;oH. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would have expected {=
ngoQwIj}, and indeed your English version says "my...goal." I'=
;ll not call it an error, but you probably should add the possessive suffix=
.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div>ngoQvam Qatlh law' ngoQwIj wa'DIch Qatlh puS. =
wa' ben, mu' law' vISov, 'ach jIHvaD jatlhchugh vay', v=
IyajlaHbe'.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>majQa'. pup=
chu' Hoch.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> vaj, teSDu'wIj vIqeqnIS.</div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>*** Remember when I asked you to note how =
you used {qeq} before? You're using it differently here, with the objec=
t receiving the benefit of the training. I believe your first sentence has =
the right meaning, and you need to find either a different word or a differ=
ent grammatical structure for this one. It could be as easy as adding the s=
uffix {-moH}:<br><br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0vaj teSDu'wIj vIqeqnISmoH</div><div><=
br></div><div>Or you could turn it around:</div><div><br></div><div><div>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0vaj qeqnIS teSDu'wIj<br><br>Neither of these sounds perfec=
t to me, though.</div></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> qon puS=C2=A0vIghaj. qonDaq,=C2=
=A0tlhIngan Hol jatlh po'wI'pu'.</div></div></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>*** {qon} "record" is a verb. You can substitute th=
e noun {ta}, and I suggest calling it a {ghogh ta} "voice record"=
or {wab ta} "sound record" in the first mention.<br><br>*** The =
final verb needs the proper prefix: {lujatlh}.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=C2=A0vI&=
#39;Ij 'ej mu'mey jatlhbogh=C2=A0vIghItlh 'e' vInID. bom tl=
hIngan vI'Ij je.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>*** {t=
lhIngan bom} for "Klingon songs"=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jupwI'=
;, DaH peja'. ngoQraj bochav'a'? tlhIngan vIttlheghvam yIqaw: b=
IQapqu'meH, tar DaSop 'e' DatIvnIS.</div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>majQa'! It's simple, straightforward, and close en=
ough that I understood what you intended before I looked at the English.<br=
><br>-- ghunchu'wI'</div></div></div></div>
--001a11499f6a508d7e0550ef249b--
--===============1695470386743845422==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============1695470386743845422==--
