[109337] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Sat Mar 25 12:16:44 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2017 16:11:31 +0000
In-Reply-To: <f240048a-ac15-87aa-3682-740ad7bbdfbb@trimboli.name>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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=3D=3D WORD REQUEST MESSAGE =3D=3D
- for the N:th time
Example sentences:
- The third time I saw you, I began to experience parmaq.
- I will see my doctor for the third time tomorrow.
- I played Qavbogh DI'ruj ngeb wa'maH vagh for the one-thousandth time yest=
erday.
- While I was reading the book for the second time, I noticed a grammatical=
error.
- Do you remember the first time we danced together?
You might also consider a sentence that doesn't make much sense in English:
- On the how-many:th date do Klingons normally do it for the first time?
There are currently some decent workarounds, but I feel they're a lot more =
cumbersome than they need be; I usually end up with something like "When I'=
d done something (N-1) times, while I was doing it again, before I had fini=
shed doing it..."
You also sometimes get into situations where it's unclear if you mean "I at=
e pizza for the third time yesterday." vs. "I ate pizza three times yesterd=
ay."
Sometimes there are handy nouns available (Hegh wanI'wIj wa'DIch vIqawchu'.=
), but other times you're left with -ghach, which works well for simple sen=
tences (qaStaHvIS ja'chuqtaHghachmaj cha'DIch, chovuQqu'.) is troublesome f=
or complex sentences ("the third time my mother and I went hunting for targ=
s in the forest together").
This could potentially be handled using a new numerical suffix.
...or perhaps even by combining -DIch and -logh?
________________________________
From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel=
<sustel@trimboli.name>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 15:30
To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!
On 3/25/2017 9:39 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
=3D=3D DISCUSSION ONLY =3D=3D
> We can say DorDI' Hogh and we generally accept taghDI' Hogh,
> so I'm not devastated by this lack. (I wouldn't mind a verb for
> begin [a period of time does this].)
There is quite a lot of canon support for {tagh} having a dual syntax:
tagh [event]. =3D "[Event] begins."
[event] tagh [agent]. =3D "[Agent] starts [event]."
I'm not referring to dual syntax; I mean tagh is glossed begin a process, i=
nitiate, which might suggest that it refers only to processes or events, no=
t to time periods. All of the examples of tagh you provided refer to events=
or processes, except possibly tagh HarghchuqmeH poH, which is a time perio=
d defined by an event. The question is, does a week "start a process, initi=
ate"?
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<p><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" color=3D"bl=
ack"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;background-color:white;" dir=3D"ltr">=3D=
=3D WORD REQUEST MESSAGE =3D=3D<br>
</span></font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>- for the N:th time</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Example sentences:<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>- The third time I saw you, I began to experience parmaq.<br>
</p>
<p>- I will see my doctor for the third time tomorrow.</p>
<p>- I played Qavbogh DI'ruj ngeb wa'maH vagh for the one-thousandth time y=
esterday.</p>
<p>- While I was reading the book for the second time, I noticed a grammati=
cal error.</p>
<p>- Do you remember the first time we danced together?<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>You might also consider a sentence that doesn't make much sense in Engli=
sh:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>- On the how-many:th date do Klingons normally do it for the f=
irst time? <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>There are currently some decent workarounds, but I feel they're a lot mo=
re cumbersome than they need be; I usually end up with something like "=
;When I'd done something (N-1) times, while I was doing it again, befo=
re I had finished doing it..."</p>
<p>You also sometimes get into situations where it's unclear if you mean &q=
uot;I ate pizza for the third time yesterday." vs. "I ate pizza t=
hree times yesterday."<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Sometimes there are handy nouns available (Hegh wanI'wIj wa'DIch vIqawch=
u'.), but other times you're left with -ghach, which works well for simple =
sentences (qaStaHvIS ja'chuqtaHghachmaj cha'DIch, chovuQqu'.) is troublesom=
e for complex sentences ("the third
time my mother and I went hunting for targs in the forest together").=
<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>This could potentially be handled using a new numerical suffix.</p>
<p>...or perhaps even by combining -DIch and -logh? <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> tlhIngan-Hol <tl=
hingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel <sustel@trimbol=
i.name><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 25, 2017 15:30<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu' chu' chabal tetlh!</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 3/25/2017 9:39 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote=
:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<p>=3D=3D DISCUSSION ONLY =3D=3D</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>> We can say <strong>DorDI' Hogh</strong> and we generally accept <st=
rong>taghDI' Hogh,</strong></p>
<p>> so I'm not devastated by this lack. (I wouldn't mind a verb for<em>=
<br>
</em></p>
<p><em>> begin [a period of time does this]</em>.)<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>There is quite a lot of canon support for {tagh} having a dual syntax:<b=
r>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p><strong>tagh </strong>[event]. =3D "[Event] begins."</p>
<p>[event] <strong>tagh</strong> [agent]. =3D "[Agent] starts [ev=
ent]."</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>I'm not referring to dual syntax; I mean <b>tagh</b> is glossed <i>begin=
a process, initiate,</i> which might suggest that it refers only to proces=
ses or events, not to time periods. All of the examples of
<b>tagh</b> you provided refer to events or processes, except possibly <str=
ong>tagh HarghchuqmeH poH,</strong> which is a time period defined by an ev=
ent. The question is, does a week "start a process, initiate"?<br=
>
</p>
<pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">-- =0A=
SuStel=0A=
<a class=3D"moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://trimboli.name">http://tri=
mboli.name</a></pre>
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